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Is Gastric Banding a better choice for those who have less to lose?

c_cubed
on 4/1/12 10:55 am
I would love to hear everyones opinion on this (especially from my on line sparring buddies!).

Do you think that gastric banding is a better choice for folks who have, lets say, no more than 100 pounds to lose?

Not sure if the amount of weight to lose would determine the success or lack of success, but the more weight you have to lose, the more adjustments you 'll need, which means having to re-acclimate yourself to "eating" all over again.

Let me explain.  In my experience, after an adjustment, I have to get used to being tighter- and therefore, for the next several days, I'm having to be a lot more strict about what I eat.  After several weeks, the band becomes less tight and I start eating larger portions, which means another adjustment is needed.

Do you think doing this process over and over and over can dictate the outcome?

Have I completely lost everyone or am I making any sense?
Your thoughts?
MARIA F.
on 4/1/12 11:32 am - Athens, GA

line sparring buddie stepping up to the podium. I may be a little shy.........but you know my view on the band. Any if one was to get the band I would prefer it was a lighter weight than one very MO or SMO. If they were the latter and were a "success" with the band.........losing the 40 or 50% average of a band "success" could still put them in the MO catagory, and I don't know why anyone would put theirselves through WLS to remain MO?

~Do you think doing this process over and over and over can dictate the outcome?~

Well this is the process for you so far. As to the amount of restriction (if it is ever acheived, that is), it's a crap shoot at best. You have been extremely lucky at this point, that's not the case with most. Most have to have several fills before they reach restriction (3-8 if they are lucky?). I have seen post of bandsters that state finally getting it at 1,2 or even 3 years out. Obviously most would not even bother at that point and just give up. And many never reach restriction at all. Hislady's last visit to the Dr. she was told that 20% never reach it.

Now on the other hand..........some get the band in and have perfect restriction after just a few fills and lose tons of weight. Then they have a band complication and have to be unfilled or have band replaced or repositioned. They automaticlly assume that the band will work the same for them, but they never have the same luck with the 2nd band. :-(

Then there are those that reach their sweet spot, but like some of us..........the band will tighten at any moment for no particular reason.

What I'm trying to say is that the band can be (and usually IS) COMPLETELY UNPREDICTABLE! :-(

So given these factored in.........if one is not a light weight, I think they stand much less of a chance considering that the band, if it does work, can be VERY late to start working...........and considering that most are removed by 5 yrs...........it could actually be a very short amount of time that the band has to "work" for them to lose weight considering that they would need a longer amount of time to lose the weight if they are MO/SMO.

Does that make any sense? I'm sure that can be explained better, but it just kind of came out that way, lol.

 

   FormerlyFluffy.com

 

(deactivated member)
on 4/1/12 11:47 am - Mexico
On April 1, 2012 at 10:55 AM Pacific Time, c_cubed wrote:
I would love to hear everyones opinion on this (especially from my on line sparring buddies!).

Do you think that gastric banding is a better choice for folks who have, lets say, no more than 100 pounds to lose?

Not sure if the amount of weight to lose would determine the success or lack of success, but the more weight you have to lose, the more adjustments you 'll need, which means having to re-acclimate yourself to "eating" all over again.

Let me explain.  In my experience, after an adjustment, I have to get used to being tighter- and therefore, for the next several days, I'm having to be a lot more strict about what I eat.  After several weeks, the band becomes less tight and I start eating larger portions, which means another adjustment is needed.

Do you think doing this process over and over and over can dictate the outcome?

Have I completely lost everyone or am I making any sense?
Your thoughts?
 
I don't believe the band is good for anyone.  One way or another it's a temporary weight loss method just like plication.  The number of people who still have their band after 10 years is very low.  The band has the most complications of all major WLS types.

The issue that bothers me more than anything... I think, is that people get a band with huge hopes of losing massive amounts of weight and with all the complications, people never getting restriction, never being able to find the famous sweet spot many do not lose well and they beat themselves up feeling like even WLS couldn't help them.  It messes with self esteem in a huge way.

The band has the highest regain of all major surgery types.  So people bust their humps trying to lose and then the regain starts.  There is a 5 year regain with ALL surgery types but it is highest with the band.  I just don't like seeing people try so hard, have high hopes, then find themselves regaining sometimes even more than what they started out.

You should read the band vets board, it's full of whining and complaining about the band.  Heck, nobody hardly joins there anymore because so many have revised to other surgery types.


MARIA F.
on 4/1/12 12:01 pm - Athens, GA
On April 1, 2012 at 11:47 AM Pacific Time, boldnbariatric wrote:
On April 1, 2012 at 10:55 AM Pacific Time, c_cubed wrote:
I would love to hear everyones opinion on this (especially from my on line sparring buddies!).

Do you think that gastric banding is a better choice for folks who have, lets say, no more than 100 pounds to lose?

Not sure if the amount of weight to lose would determine the success or lack of success, but the more weight you have to lose, the more adjustments you 'll need, which means having to re-acclimate yourself to "eating" all over again.

Let me explain.  In my experience, after an adjustment, I have to get used to being tighter- and therefore, for the next several days, I'm having to be a lot more strict about what I eat.  After several weeks, the band becomes less tight and I start eating larger portions, which means another adjustment is needed.

Do you think doing this process over and over and over can dictate the outcome?

Have I completely lost everyone or am I making any sense?
Your thoughts?
 
I don't believe the band is good for anyone.  One way or another it's a temporary weight loss method just like plication.  The number of people who still have their band after 10 years is very low.  The band has the most complications of all major WLS types.

The issue that bothers me more than anything... I think, is that people get a band with huge hopes of losing massive amounts of weight and with all the complications, people never getting restriction, never being able to find the famous sweet spot many do not lose well and they beat themselves up feeling like even WLS couldn't help them.  It messes with self esteem in a huge way.

The band has the highest regain of all major surgery types.  So people bust their humps trying to lose and then the regain starts.  There is a 5 year regain with ALL surgery types but it is highest with the band.  I just don't like seeing people try so hard, have high hopes, then find themselves regaining sometimes even more than what they started out.

You should read the band vets board, it's full of whining and complaining about the band.  Heck, nobody hardly joins there anymore because so many have revised to other surgery types.



You know I agree with you about the band. I wrote what I did because I view banding a lightweight as opposed to a heavyweigh "the lesser of two evils".

Now I especially agree with you on this point:

The issue that bothers me more than anything... I think, is that people get a band with huge hopes of losing massive amounts of weight and with all the complications, people never getting restriction, never being able to find the famous sweet spot many do not lose well and they beat themselves up feeling like even WLS couldn't help them.  It messes with self esteem in a huge way.


The emotional aspects as a result of banding can be devistating! Been through that myself, and seen soooooo many others go through it as well. :-( We are told to follow the band rules and the band will work for us. Not always the case. I know personally it was hell going every month to get that fill thinking.........."maybe this will be the ONE!"...........only to be let down yet another time. Very emotionally draining! To make matters even worse I would read threads on OH and they would say if the band didn't work it was b/c the bandster was doing something wrong! This can take a huge hit on ones self esteem!

 

   FormerlyFluffy.com

 

(deactivated member)
on 4/1/12 12:12 pm - Mexico
On April 1, 2012 at 12:01 PM Pacific Time, MARIA F. wrote:
On April 1, 2012 at 11:47 AM Pacific Time, boldnbariatric wrote:
On April 1, 2012 at 10:55 AM Pacific Time, c_cubed wrote:
I would love to hear everyones opinion on this (especially from my on line sparring buddies!).

Do you think that gastric banding is a better choice for folks who have, lets say, no more than 100 pounds to lose?

Not sure if the amount of weight to lose would determine the success or lack of success, but the more weight you have to lose, the more adjustments you 'll need, which means having to re-acclimate yourself to "eating" all over again.

Let me explain.  In my experience, after an adjustment, I have to get used to being tighter- and therefore, for the next several days, I'm having to be a lot more strict about what I eat.  After several weeks, the band becomes less tight and I start eating larger portions, which means another adjustment is needed.

Do you think doing this process over and over and over can dictate the outcome?

Have I completely lost everyone or am I making any sense?
Your thoughts?
 
I don't believe the band is good for anyone.  One way or another it's a temporary weight loss method just like plication.  The number of people who still have their band after 10 years is very low.  The band has the most complications of all major WLS types.

The issue that bothers me more than anything... I think, is that people get a band with huge hopes of losing massive amounts of weight and with all the complications, people never getting restriction, never being able to find the famous sweet spot many do not lose well and they beat themselves up feeling like even WLS couldn't help them.  It messes with self esteem in a huge way.

The band has the highest regain of all major surgery types.  So people bust their humps trying to lose and then the regain starts.  There is a 5 year regain with ALL surgery types but it is highest with the band.  I just don't like seeing people try so hard, have high hopes, then find themselves regaining sometimes even more than what they started out.

You should read the band vets board, it's full of whining and complaining about the band.  Heck, nobody hardly joins there anymore because so many have revised to other surgery types.



You know I agree with you about the band. I wrote what I did because I view banding a lightweight as opposed to a heavyweigh "the lesser of two evils".

Now I especially agree with you on this point:

The issue that bothers me more than anything... I think, is that people get a band with huge hopes of losing massive amounts of weight and with all the complications, people never getting restriction, never being able to find the famous sweet spot many do not lose well and they beat themselves up feeling like even WLS couldn't help them.  It messes with self esteem in a huge way.


The emotional aspects as a result of banding can be devistating! Been through that myself, and seen soooooo many others go through it as well. :-( We are told to follow the band rules and the band will work for us. Not always the case. I know personally it was hell going every month to get that fill thinking.........."maybe this will be the ONE!"...........only to be let down yet another time. Very emotionally draining! To make matters even worse I would read threads on OH and they would say if the band didn't work it was b/c the bandster was doing something wrong! This can take a huge hit on ones self esteem!
 
Yeah, I have never been one to blame the banded person unless it's just bloody obvious.  I recall one person that swore she was only eating 600 calories a day but she was gaining quickly and wanted bypass.  She decided the reason she was gaining because her body was in (ahem) starvation mode.  I asked if she was gaining because she wasn't eating enough how is malabsorbing 200 of those 600 calories daily going to help?

Turns out, she was eating all day long and overeating at that.  You can't do that with WLS, all surgery types you barf it up and so her 600 calorie a day number came from what she estimated she was keeping down.  It wasn't really her 'fault' in the sense that she was in full denial but it wasn't the bands fault either.

One of my best friends has a band and she's been banded for about 5 years.  She eats her 800 calories a day in good food and then at LEAST a pound of chocolate daily.  She's huge.  I've never suggested DS to her because no WLS type fixes white carbs.  That one is all us.  I suspect she's going to be a big girl for the rest of her days.
Nic M
on 4/1/12 12:05 pm
My issue with the band has nothing to do with amount of weight lost. I lost well over 100 pounds while banded, myself. But it was due to the inability to eat solid foods. Ever. At all. No matter that my band was unfilled. Nothing solid was passing through.

My issue with the band has everything to do with the amount of damage it causes to the stomach, the esophagus and the way it affects how the Vagus nerves work. It tends to cause referred left shoulder  pain in an inordinate amount of people and that right there is cause for concern.


In theory it might be a stellar idea... control the portion size a person can consume and help them feel full longer. In reality, it isn't that simple. The human body doesn't react well to its presence.

I think it's dangerous and disturbing that the band is being used on people with insignificant amounts of weight to lose. It drives home the fact that it's more about profit than actually helping people get healthier.

 

 Avoid kemmerling, Green Bay, WI

 

(deactivated member)
on 4/1/12 12:16 pm - Mexico
 
Yep, it's damaged my esophagus for life.  There is no fix.  And that isn't really all that uncommon.


Nic M
on 4/1/12 7:32 pm
I kinda "flopped" down on my bed last night while horsing around with my hubby. IMMEDIATELY I felt my stomach climb up into my chest from the stupid hiatal hernia I got while banded. I could barely catch my breath. Nothing makes you feel older or more broken down than simply lying down and then being unable to breathe. Happens ALL the time.

After I caught my breath, the left shoulder pain started again, so yay for that. Just constant reminders of my time banded... can't quite escape them. But, at least I'm fat again. Wait. **** I guess I only have bad reminders of my time banded.

 

 Avoid kemmerling, Green Bay, WI

 

(deactivated member)
on 4/1/12 8:38 pm - Mexico
On April 1, 2012 at 7:32 PM Pacific Time, Gerta Goober wrote:
I kinda "flopped" down on my bed last night while horsing around with my hubby. IMMEDIATELY I felt my stomach climb up into my chest from the stupid hiatal hernia I got while banded. I could barely catch my breath. Nothing makes you feel older or more broken down than simply lying down and then being unable to breathe. Happens ALL the time.

After I caught my breath, the left shoulder pain started again, so yay for that. Just constant reminders of my time banded... can't quite escape them. But, at least I'm fat again. Wait. **** I guess I only have bad reminders of my time banded.
 
If you have insurance why not get that fixed and self pay for the sleeve?  Ins is already going to pay for the anesthesia, hospital, etc.  All you would have to pay is the surgeon for the sleeve portion.


Nic M
on 4/1/12 9:39 pm
I'm working on that. I just went in last week for the physical and all the prelim stuff (Xrays, EKG, blood work.) However, in doing that, some health issues popped up that I wasn't even aware of. Bleah. So, I'm consulting with a couple of docs in the upcoming couple of weeks to find out what's what.

 

 Avoid kemmerling, Green Bay, WI

 

He who can't be Named
on 4/7/12 1:21 pm, edited 4/7/12 1:21 pm
I'm not Nicci, but some of us that now have insurance still can't get a revision covered, because there is a clause that states "one WLS per lifetime". Even if you self paid for it.

Sneaky insurance *******s come up with new ways to weasel out of paying every day.
Some times dingle berries are the lowest hanging fruit.  
(deactivated member)
on 4/7/12 2:17 pm - Mexico
On April 7, 2012 at 1:21 PM Pacific Time, He who can't be Named wrote:
I'm not Nicci, but some of us that now have insurance still can't get a revision covered, because there is a clause that states "one WLS per lifetime". Even if you self paid for it.

Sneaky insurance *******s come up with new ways to weasel out of paying every day.
 
Yep, they sure darn do.

But., you know who you have to blame?  Those people that get a surgery type knowing full well it isn't going to work per stats and they say... if this doesn't work i'll revise to 'x' surgery.

Those are who you have to blame.  Ins co's don't want to keep paying until someone figures out which surgery type they want.  No, until which surgery type they need.

Now they are stuck with what they have, as is everyone else.  Sad story.

Welcome to the world of self pay, I've done it twice.  Once for a band and once for a revision to a sleeve.


Nic M
on 4/7/12 9:04 pm
Yep. It stinks, too!

Choose wisely the first time or you're screwed.

 

 Avoid kemmerling, Green Bay, WI

 

Kitty_mom
on 4/2/12 11:18 am - New Maryland, Canada
The band seems to be the latest whipping boy around here. I have a band & yeah I have had a some complications. No,  the band is not for everyone. I had great luck with the first band until a trip to Europe caused it to slip- don't let anyone tell you that a bubble in the band can not expand because of altitude- ever watch what happens top a chip bag in flight?   It does work well for some people & not for others, it does not cure bad habits, but it does make it easier to diet.  As for fills- some people have one or two fills & are good for a year or two. Others (like me) have had to have many. many fills. I know I am not typical. I eat solid food all the time. I hardly ever PB. I have finally learned what it means to chew your food enough. You are done chewing when your food is liquefied. One should do that whether you have a band or not. Talk to your doctor about the positives & negatives or all the WLS you are considering. Look at actual studies, not just the cheer leaders for this or that surgery. Look on line for actual studies which look at WLS. Lastly, ask questions in the different forums from the people who have been successful with their choice. Don't rely on advise from people who are trashing a surgery that they have not had (they are supporting their choice of WLS) or those who have had a revision (they have had a bad experience that can effect their opinions.)
 I have a friend who has the lap-band and 2 years out, supported her daughter to get one too.
30% of WLS patients are not successful no matter what WLS they choose (with the possible exception of DS but it has it's own issues). 
Good luck in making the best decision for you.

 

(deactivated member)
on 4/2/12 1:06 pm - Mexico
On April 2, 2012 at 11:18 AM Pacific Time, Kitty_mom wrote:
The band seems to be the latest whipping boy around here. I have a band & yeah I have had a some complications. No,  the band is not for everyone. I had great luck with the first band until a trip to Europe caused it to slip- don't let anyone tell you that a bubble in the band can not expand because of altitude- ever watch what happens top a chip bag in flight?   It does work well for some people & not for others, it does not cure bad habits, but it does make it easier to diet.  As for fills- some people have one or two fills & are good for a year or two. Others (like me) have had to have many. many fills. I know I am not typical. I eat solid food all the time. I hardly ever PB. I have finally learned what it means to chew your food enough. You are done chewing when your food is liquefied. One should do that whether you have a band or not. Talk to your doctor about the positives & negatives or all the WLS you are considering. Look at actual studies, not just the cheer leaders for this or that surgery. Look on line for actual studies which look at WLS. Lastly, ask questions in the different forums from the people who have been successful with their choice. Don't rely on advise from people who are trashing a surgery that they have not had (they are supporting their choice of WLS) or those who have had a revision (they have had a bad experience that can effect their opinions.)
 I have a friend who has the lap-band and 2 years out, supported her daughter to get one too.
30% of WLS patients are not successful no matter what WLS they choose (with the possible exception of DS but it has it's own issues). 
Good luck in making the best decision for you.
 
~~Lastly, ask questions in the different forums from the people who have been successful with their choice. Don't rely on advise from people who are trashing a surgery that they have not had (they are supporting their choice of WLS) or those who have had a revision (they have had a bad experience that can effect their opinions.)~~

Whoa, wait a minute!  So people should just listen to the cheerleaders and ignore the majority, those that actually experienced the band sometimes for years and years?  So those that got to goal with the band but lost it anyway should be dismissed?  What in the world make your experiences more valid than mine?  How are your views less colored than mine?

If this isn't the worst advice I have ever read, I don't know what is.

Most of those that had a band and lost it through no fault of their own are the ones WITH the stats and studies.  We are the ones posting them constantly for the mere purpose that people can make truly informed decisions.


Lap band success stats are inflated merely by decreasing the required weight loss to be successful.  If a banded person loses a mere 40% of their EXCESS weight they are considered a success.  That still leaves them morbidly obese.  The other surgery types have higher weight loss % requirements to be successful.  That is sheer manipulation of numbers to put the band in a better light.  So that throws out your silly claim that 30% of all WLS types except DS fail.  And btw, just for your info, 2-3% of DSers fail.

When I was looking to have a revision I already knew about the surgery types.  My next step was to go out looking for those with complications and problems.  Not just the 2 month post op cheerleaders.  Or the 1 year post op cheerleaders.  They haven't even had the surgery type long enough to statistically have serious complications.  I wanted to know what could happen, what is possible, what to look for, how does it affect their quality of life, was it fixable.  I damn sure didn't want puppy dogs and roses inserted in my bottom.  I wanted real life personal experiences and for you to suggest that others not do this is nothing short of shameful to those researching.

I have a ton of friends that have/had bands.  All but two have had them removed and revised to something else and 2 can't afford it and live in misery sleeping in chairs because like many a few years post op, they can't lay flat anymore with an empty band due to horrific reflux and esophageal problems.  And you, you boast of having a friend that suggested her daughter get a band.

Bleh.

c_cubed
on 4/2/12 1:28 pm
You know what I think would be cool?  If there was a study based on certain regions of the country- or  the world for that matter.   I wonder if specific surgeons or facilities have better or worse success rates? 

Does anyone have stats like that?

Also, I'll be honest, I don't read all the articles and statistics, so I don't really know what constitutes a complication.  There are things that I know without a doubt are complications like a port infection, a slipped band,  or hernia-- but what else?  Pain?  Frustration of not being able to eat certain foods? 

This gets curiouser and curiouser....


MARIA F.
on 4/2/12 2:39 pm - Athens, GA
On April 2, 2012 at 1:28 PM Pacific Time, c_cubed wrote:
You know what I think would be cool?  If there was a study based on certain regions of the country- or  the world for that matter.   I wonder if specific surgeons or facilities have better or worse success rates? 

Does anyone have stats like that?

Also, I'll be honest, I don't read all the articles and statistics, so I don't really know what constitutes a complication.  There are things that I know without a doubt are complications like a port infection, a slipped band,  or hernia-- but what else?  Pain?  Frustration of not being able to eat certain foods? 

This gets curiouser and curiouser....



CC I'm very involved in the WLS community. From what I have observed...........the high failure rate is pretty much across the board. Yes a bad surgeon will have a higher failure rate, but I am seeing high failure rates in the good surgeons also.

My Dr. did his residency at the Mayo clinic. Excellent reputation. My band never worked. One of the bariatric surgeons in Atl. that was voted the top bariatric surgeon in here used to do a LOT of bands. Now at his informational seminar he doesn't even mention the band when he discusses WLS choices. Many Drs. are now refusing to even do the band. That's why band sales are way down over the last yr. or 2.

Why do you think many Drs. are refusing to do the band when it is such an easy procedure???

 

   FormerlyFluffy.com

 

c_cubed
on 4/2/12 2:57 pm

You make great points--as usual!  Not only are you funny, but your smart too! 

MARIA F.
on 4/2/12 2:53 pm - Athens, GA

Actually band compllications are extremely under-reported, so I would love to see some accurate band stats!

Here's a list of some band complications:

NO RESTRICTION
SLIP
LEAK
PORT FLIPS
EROSION
ESOPHAGEAL DYSMOTILITY
BARRETT'S ESOPHAGUS
DIALATED ESOPHAGUS
ECHALASIA
LEFT REFERRING SHOULDER PAIN
PULMONARY PROBLEMS
HH
COUGH
REFLUX
LIVER DAMAGE

That's just what I can think of off hand.

And as far as curiouser and curiouser.........how the band performs can vary from minute to minute! I call mine a psych band. Know anyone who is bi-polar? Well that's what the band reminds me of, lol. It's just not consistant. Like maybe for lunch you have a stead or chicken and it goes down with no problem at all............then a few hrs. later you try a yogurt and it gets stuck. There just seems to be no rhyme or reason to why the band does what it does at times. Very unpredictable.

And I think one of the most interesting things about the band is......someone can have a band........get restriction right away............lose a LOT of weight..........then have a slip. They did awesome with the band initially, so they get another one. Then a lot of times on the 2nd one they have no luck at all! NO restriction. Fill/unfill/fill/unfill/fill/unfill/etc. Perplexing how that happens, and very sad for the individual that it happens to b/c they of course went into that 2nd surgery expecting it to work as the first one did since they are using the same band rules to work with the band! :-(

 

   FormerlyFluffy.com

 

(deactivated member)
on 4/2/12 4:42 pm - Mexico
On April 2, 2012 at 1:28 PM Pacific Time, c_cubed wrote:
You know what I think would be cool?  If there was a study based on certain regions of the country- or  the world for that matter.   I wonder if specific surgeons or facilities have better or worse success rates? 

Does anyone have stats like that?

Also, I'll be honest, I don't read all the articles and statistics, so I don't really know what constitutes a complication.  There are things that I know without a doubt are complications like a port infection, a slipped band,  or hernia-- but what else?  Pain?  Frustration of not being able to eat certain foods? 

This gets curiouser and curiouser....



Ahhhhh... I just wrote out a long reply and stupid OH software blanked out and made it disappear.

I'm going to make this one shorter.

In a nutshell there are stats and studies throughout the world.  Europe was probably one of the first countries to say yes to the band.  Now that the studies are older they are getting away from banding and going to sleeves.

Chile is not doing banding anymore as a whole.  They have opted for sleeves.  It won't work, they make HUGE sleeves so their people will lose well but the regain will be very significant.

Australia has socialized medicine and it was going bankrupt.  They decided to tackle the problem of obesity wih bands.  It didn't work, the cost of the complications was just as significant as the cost of obesity complications.  Now they had BOTH costs.

Germany is still up in the air, they are checking and rechecking their numbers and last I heard had not made a decision.  I'll have to look that up.

Mexico was approved to place bands in 1991, the US in 2001.  The MX surgeons kept saying sleeves were the way to go but Allergan convinced doctors bands were safer.  US doctors believed the advertising instead of the experience of the surgeons in MX.  Now they are finding it isn't so great afterall.  MANY doctors have stopped placing them and the ASMBS doesn't have great things to say about it either.