Thinning of the Rotary Cuff (inner muscles of the shoulder)
Just wondering if you’ve had any shoulder problems? I was just having a tiny pain in the frontal deltoid, with no weakness whatsoever, but figured I’d get an MRI. So to make a long story short, the mid portion of my supraspinatus tendon/muscle of the rotary cuff is recessed, which I took to mean worn or frayed, or maybe it just means “thinned."
So the doc says no more overhead lifting or even bench presses unless the elbows can remain close to the body. He said and I’ve heard this elsewhere, that weight training with the arms at or above the horizontal plane (bench, lateral raises, flies, pull-ups and more), inevitably causes rotator cuff tears. He did offer me an alternative in isometrics, which is basically infinite load, so may have some potential for muscle mass(?).
Just wondering if you’ve got any information about this kind of thing? Everything on the internet says 20-30 reps does not equal strength. Hell, yoga’d be more effective than 20-30 reps with weights.
Best Wishes,
Dave
Here's a link to a site that may help you some:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/rotator-cuff-injury/DS00192 /DSECTION=causes
Anyways, take care of your shoulder and good luck!
Thanks, Bama!
Sounds like you've really had a rough time with that shoulder. I hope you don't have to have surgery again.
I'm wondering what to do here. I have a feeling the cortisone shot and some Cox-2 antiinflams and H2 inhibitors are going to clear up the pain.
I get different opinions. There are some who say keep lifting and then, the docs who say no training whatsoever at or above 90 degrees (above parallel with the floor). Not sure what to do.
Best Wishes,
Dave
I've got some additional exercises to do from doc. He freaked out that my deltoids are huge and then what he called in Japanese the "inner muscles" are tiny. Supposedly a combination for trouble, because the outer deltoid and pec muscles allow you to lift, but it's the inner RC muscles/ tendons that hold everything together.
It's pretty tricky to do the RC exercises correctly. I have been doing several, but when you use say, more than a lb. of weight the deltoids kick in and lift the weight and the RC muscles go unworked. You actually have to know the location of the Supraspinatus and reach around (hoo!) with the othe hand and feel if it's contracting. I think this also double as biofeedback for when you're working out.
I have a lot of dumbell and cable exercises that don't cause pain. I can probably stick with those.
So Bama, do you feel that all of your weight training earlier on was a plus, or has it turned out to be a liaibility? I always get mixed opinons on this. My UK doc friend says heavy weight training does not lead to a musculoskeletal system that ages well. Then I hear others say that weight training improves mobility.
I know one thing for sure, Heaviness does not lead to mobility - at any agre and particularly into old age. I've seen this repeatedly with family members and neighbors as they pass 50.
Best Wishes,
Dave
I've got some additional exercises to do from doc. He freaked out that my deltoids are huge and then what he called in Japanese the "inner muscles" are tiny. Supposedly a combination for trouble, because the outer deltoid and pec muscles allow you to lift, but it's the inner RC muscles/ tendons that hold everything together.
It's pretty tricky to do the RC exercises correctly. I have been doing several, but when you use say, more than a lb. of weight the deltoids kick in and lift the weight and the RC muscles go unworked. You actually have to know the location of the Supraspinatus and reach around (hoo!) with the othe hand and feel if it's contracting. I think this also double as biofeedback for when you're working out.
I have a lot of dumbell and cable exercises that don't cause pain. I can probably stick with those.
So Bama, do you feel that all of your weight training earlier on was a plus, or has it turned out to be a liaibility? I always get mixed opinons on this. My UK doc friend says heavy weight training does not lead to a musculoskeletal system that ages well. Then I hear others say that weight training improves mobility.
I know one thing for sure, Heaviness does not lead to mobility - at any agre and particularly into old age. I've seen this repeatedly with family members and neighbors as they pass 50.
Best Wishes,
Dave
Dave, I actually believe the weight training has been beneficial in more ways than one. The underlying cause for my shoulder problems is the old high school football injury that was not treated at the time. The way it healed back on its' own created a problem with alignment and mechanics, which created impingement. The ortho specialist told me the added muscle actually helped my shoulder hold up longer than it would have, and aided in my healing faster after shoulder surgery.
I do share the opinion that the continual lifting of super heavy weights, such as in the case of power lifters, eventually takes a toll on the skeletal system. I know several guys who were hard core power lifters for 10 or more years. They were constantly doing super heavy bench presses, squats and deadlifts to increase their 1 rep max for competitions. Every one of them are now having major problems with their knees, ankles, elbows, etc. A couple of them are bacically crippled from it now.
To give you an idea of the super heavy weights these guys used - they all benched over 550 lbs., deadlifted over 750 lbs., and would squat over 800 lbs. One actually held the record in his weight class (he weighed 242 lbs,) when he squatted 1002 lbs. That record was later broken. Comparatively, my personal bests were: 405 bench press, 675 deadlift, and 650 squat. Of course, I was 48 at the time, which was at least 10 years older than any of those guys.
You were at pro level compared to me. My workout weights (not powerlifting) were pretty heavy, but nowhere near anything like the ones you were doing. Of course, I have always mixed things up. For a couple of years in my 30's I did triathlons and full marathons. I had to learn to swim, so that meant swimming with a bad stroke for 8 or more hours a week, which probably sawed down my rotator cuff some.
The doc says one important thing is working on the muscles that pull the scapula together, so that the tops of the shoulder blades will open up space in the shoulder cavity and not saw on the rotator cuff muscles.Hope it works.
I was doing lots and lots of pushups of various types and no benches and was fine. Then a friend of mine invited me to do some benches and that combined with repeated work on the handstands set it off.
Don't know what to do. I do know that the doc was shocked at the discrepancy in size between my RC muscles and my deltoid and peck muscles so I defintely have to do a much better job of exercising those.
Thanks Again,
Dave
Now the pain is almost gone (Cortisone and NSAIDs) so I'll have to be careful not to injure it, because nothing hurts.
Thanks,
Dave