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Post Date: 7/15/07 1:05 pm Last Edit: 7/15/07 2:36 pm If anyone watches Big Medicine, there is a TLC discussion board over there. The pschologist (or psychiartist, not sure) Mary Jo started a discussion by asking, "Do women suffer more psychologically and socially because of their obesity?". She then started the conversation out by saying research proved that it affected them more, that an obese woman was more likely to get raped, and that her overweight friends had a difficult time in daily life and dating. My response was lengthy, but I am going to include it below. I'll also post a link to the actual TLC messageboard if anyone wants to bounce their ideas around on there. Curious to hear what you guys think...I'm just so tired of hearing the pat answer of "all that matters is how you feel about yourself". I feel like that is a lie and putting the blame of the disservice back on the person who is encountering the obesity bias. Here is the link : http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2951935098 /m/4101954709 Here was my answer to the question: Yes, oh yes is my answer to the original question. Before I respond at length, I’d like to first preface my answer with a few comments to qualify my statements and provide some perspective to those reading my answer. Many times, when I say that weight affects women psychologically and socially I am met with the counter comment that I have low self esteem, don’t value myself, or let my weight limit me and people’s reactions are merely a response to my own self perception. I would like to say that my self esteem is quite fine. I am an accomplished, college educated professional. I am a fiscally responsible home owner. I’ve got a good sense of humor, plenty of friends, and a strong, outgoing personality. I’m involved in my church and the community. I’m quite beautiful too. When my BMI is closer to 30 or less, let me say I’m down right gorgeous! I’m 5ft 11.5 “ and I dress nicely. Been told I’m quite stylish before. I hold my shoulders back, my head high. I think I’m quite a well rounded, good catch myself. Things are a bit more difficult because I have a 14 year old daughter. But in a nut shell, I think I present a nice package. My highest BMI was 43.6. The pictures I used on most of my online personals were at a BMI of 37-38. Please forgive me for providing only my first hand experiences as my supporting evidence. I’ll let Mjo cite the research. Online Dating: Eharmony: When e-harmony matches two people, a person can decline/close a match by selecting a reason from a multiple choice list. The options include things like “based on statements in their profile I am not interested in this match”, “we’re not spiritually compatible” “distance” etc. The one reason I’ve gotten close to 90% of the time?? “ I don’t feel the chemistry is there” Based on what?! My picture. Yahoo and MSN: Several male respondents took the time to send me a personal message. Some more gentle than others. One man said “I sounded great. Would I consider losing weight?”. Another “lose some weight fata**”. Yet another “ Drop the fat and get laid” One man I initiated contact with copy and pasted his reponse to me from the list of his preferences whi*****luded “average or slim” for body figure. Christian Singles: Unsolicited offers of prayer to help me overcome my fleshly bondage to gluttony. Cute. Curvy Dates and BBW: Better luck here. However, it’s still a problem as many of the men are still typifying a woman based on her body. One man who was 5’4” wanted to see if we could meet and “wrestle”. Sorry but I don’t want a man who wants me only because I’m fat so I can fulfill his weird S&M/smuffocation fantasies. Church: I belong to a large church that is filled with loving, spiritual, supportive people. Many would never say some of the things below. However, that does not negate my experiences. 1. I was dumped by a hemi-paretic, christian man I had dated for three months. He “loved me in every way but couldn’t get past my weight no matter how he tried”. I was talking/crying to a father figure deacon in my church about this. I said “can you believe he dumped me because of my weight”, to which the deacon shrugged his shoulders and gave me a sheepish grin. The non verbal message I received was “well, can you blame him?”. So, I followed with, “if he knew he felt that way, he never should have dated me in the first place.”. This was met with a very emphatic , “You are absolutely right there!”. 2. Our Sunday school class has chairs that are smaller, with no space between the chairs. There is no way to space them as the class is filled to capacity. I used to sit with my arm literally crossed over for an hour. Legs tucked as tight as I could, sitting straight up and leaning forward . Still, my hips spilled over the chair and often were touching the men sitting next to me. It was embarrassing. I knew there were larger classrooms available so I went to ask one of our pastors about switching classrooms and explained my intense discomfort. The response? Counseling about being a good steward of the body I was given. Scripture references about our body being a temple of the Holy Spirit, and freedom in Christ Jesus. I have stopped going to Sunday school until I can sit in a class where my a** doesn’t hang over onto the thigh of the men next to me. 3. Our worship center holds over one thousand people. A kindly man in his fifties singled me out and approached me because I “looked so happy, serene, and in love with God”. In addition, I was about his daughter’s age, in the mid twenties. Great! I am really in my thirties. Keep talking! LOL. Well, he couldn’t get her to come to church and wanted to introduce her to me since “we had something in common” because she’s so big like me. No joke!!! He meant no harm, but it killed. As if we’d have more in common because we’re both big. Mind you, I wasn’t ginormous. A BMI of about 42 at the time. I just can’t imagine a man being dealt with similarly in any of those scenarios. Work: Please keep in mind that I work in a surgical ICU with medical professionals who are supposedly trained to understand the obese. Who, out of anyone, would see the person more holistically. Wrong. 1. I am a core charge nurse. I have heard behind my back that my nickname is “large and in charge”. 2. I bring a thermal box lunch bag. It’s bigger., but not like an igloo cooler. I have had more than one person comment on “all that food” and “do you need to eat all that?!”, heard as I was walking in “like she needs all that food.” and one beratingly told me that “I needed to stop bringing so much so others could fit their dinner in the fridge“ Told this in the middle of shift report in front of everyone. . Never mind what I had in there…unadorned spinach and shrimp salad. Cottage cheese. Carrots. Broccoli. S/F pudding. Nope. What matters is I’m a woman. I’m fat. I’m fodder for the jokes. People at work know what I eat. We eat in front of each other. Doesn’t matter. 3. During different resuscitative efforts on patients who needed CPR I overheard the following comments while performing the chest compressions. “With her doing compressions, that patient is going to have every rib broken” and “I’ll be she can get their blood pressure higher than anyone” alluding to my weight forcing stronger compressions. Just what a stressed nurse needs to hear while a patient is actively trying to die. Who cares about that! Look at the fat woman! Holy S**t!!! 4. Was taking care of a bariatric surgery patient with a BMI of 45 when the junior resident came around to see how his patient did overnight. His inquiry went like this , “How is fatty doing?” . Um Hmmm. 5. Doctors in my presence discussing the bodies of female nurses and doctors. I think they feel comfortable doing that in my presence because in their minds I’m not “dateable”. I’ve heard them talking about how cool it is to have a petite woman and how “thick” a woman was whom I know was only a size 10-12. They all decided she might be too big to date. Real Life dating: I’ve had three long term relationships. One ended as I told you above. The man was paralyzed on one side, and spoke like he had cerebral palsy. He was bright and cognitively intact and shared my faith. I dated him after much soul searching . He was not ever one my patients, btw. It was devastating to be dumped after three months because “even though I was perfect in every other way, he couldn’t get past my weight”. It’s not like it was the skeleton in my closet. Another man, after 18 months (!!!) dumped me because of my weight. Now in his case, I had gone from a weight of 190 to 225. However, he did let me know before he left me that I was now “boner kill”. Can you imagine being told that as a woman!! He wished things could have been different as I was *again* “perfect in every way and no one had ever made him feel more loved, but my weight was too much”. Had a co-worker who had been flirting pretty heavily with me. He brought one of his friends by to check me out. I overheard his friend say “she’s cute and pretty cool, but her body”. I then heard the coworker “sssshhh” his friend. He never did go out with me. I stopped waiting for him and asked. He declined, while blushing, fidgetting and avoiding eye contact. I think he was ashamed of himself. The two guys who dumped me because of my weight both shielded me from their friends. I think they were embarrassed of me. Another female co-worker of mine had been MO for her whole life until the past two years. She lost the weight and looks great. She’s now in her late twenties, but had never had a b/f and was a virgin. After she lost the weight she was set up on a date by her friends and is now engaged to that man. Thing is, she was born and raised and lives in the same small town. Same friends , same people. Was she not worth dating before hand?! I’ve overheard friends trying to set up someone else with a guy who sounded like he could be great for me. I would inquire and they’d say something to the effect of “I’m not sure he’d be interested in you”. Knowing all other criteria matched well, I couldn’t help but wonder if they didn’t want to set up their guy friends with a fat chick. Some of us were joking about the “Stud ranch” that Heidi Fleiss is going to start. We actually looked online for male prostitutes for women thinking we likely wouldn’t find any. Well, we did. The sad thing…..the vast majority of the “studs for hire” had a conditional clause: No obese women or No fat chicks. Wow, too fat to even pay someone to have sex with you!
Sports: In high school I ran track (400, 800, discus, and hurdles), played volleyball, and did weight lifting. Keep in mind my height of 5’11.5”. I weighed 180-190 pounds. I was close to matching the school record for the 400. The school paper wrote a small piece about how impressive it was, but not before qualifying that accomplishment as being especially impressive because of my “mammoth size”. Nice. I’m still surprised that the teacher/editor didn’t edit that out. I was called Mammoth Marney forever after. I ran the 800 next to one of the guys, whom I was keeping pace with. His congratulations afterwords were as follows, “Wow!!! You can really run for a fat chick”. Um hmm. I can really run for anybody! I matched you, didn’t I? He was silent. I usually was a starter for our VB team. Couldn’t understand why I wasn’t starting during a match against a really hard team even though my stats (vertical leap, aces, kills, digs) were at least as good as the girl who was replacing me. I inquired of the coach who said he wanted to intimidate the other team and they would see me and assume I wasn’t as fast. Nice. A male player would have been taken on skill only, not how big or small he looked. When going for my walks in public, I’ve been mooed at. Had mud thrown at me. When going to the gym to weight lift, I have been looked up and down and sneered at or laughed at. Summary:
Please forgive the length of this post. If you are still reading, I’d like to summarize with the following conclusions. It might be easy to say the people I’ve encountered were all shallow or mean. Perhaps. However, one can’t put all the blame on them, nor can you discount such a vast quantity of experiences . They are a product of society and I am the common recipient denominator. No matter what social and psychological etiologies you attribute the attitudes towards, the facts remain that the attitudes are pre judgments are existant. It is what it is and it must be lived through for all of us women currently alive. I would love to be proven wrong. Really. However, when I can’t get a date in over a decade no matter how many church singles groups, online dating, or coworkers social events I attend, it makes me wonder. I very recently came to the crushing conclusion that I likely would not have a man show interest in me while being MO, which means chances are I’ll never find someone who will love me for me apart from what my body can offer them. I know it sounds harsh, but you talk to any single woman with a BMI above 40 and ask what her dating life is like. It was deeply upsetting to accept that a true, spiritual, unconditional love was not going to happen. I still pray it does, but experience has taught me different. I am not cynical. Nor am I hopeless. I am merely being a realist. I know many will disagree with me, but I think we do our children and others a great disservice when we say “you’re beautiful no matter what size”. What about, “you are worthwhile no matter what”? You are worth respect, or you are an excellent human being”. I think a person is worth what is on the inside, however society doesn’t work that way and are we not trying to teach our kids not only how to survive but thrive in the world that they are coming in to ?? I wi**** wasn’t so, and I really believed it wasn’t so for 30 years. I can’t deny the truth anymore though. Our world (sadly) doesn’t work that way. I’ve been told to say “to hell with them!” or “Who wants them if they can’t accept me the way I am?” Really though, how honest is that when 99% of the population feels that way? Or it might be fine if one intends to live alone and asexual. That is not satisfactory for me. Therefore, I sadly admit, that my weight matters. A man won’t love me apart from my body. Things might be different after someone has fallen in love with you. Most men won’t allow that to happen because they see the weight first and the mental block and heart guard goes up. Men like what is beautiful. THEN they learn to love what at first they merely liked. Man looks at the outside, while God looks at the heart. I would like to end this with saying I truly believe the following and I only wish our world was utopian enough that everyone felt this way: You do not have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body.
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Wanda M. Member Since: 08/27/06 [Latest Posts] | Post Date: 7/15/07 1:21 pm Bless your heart, I nearly cried reading your post. I've had a lot of that happen to me, and I bet a lot of us have. I am so much happier to be thinner, but it does bother me that a lot of people treat me differently than they when I was over 300 pounds. Still the same heart beating in here. I hope you know how valuable you are. Wanda M. (Rome, GA) RNY 8/14/06 Highest 340/Surgery 310/Current 140 |
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Geminidream Spokane, WA Member Since: 03/16/06 [Latest Posts] | Post Date: 7/15/07 1:59 pm Marney....wow, that was an incredible post. Thank you for sharing that with all of us here. Like Wanda said, a lot of us have had some of those same experiences and hurts. Not all of us, however are as blessed to have the strong sense of self-worth you do. As a society we've made great strides towards treating one another respectfully on many issues of differences but not where being overweight is concerned. It is still the last acceptable discrimination and so many people feel no remorse in singling out those of us who have suffered from it. Also being realistic, I don't think it will ever change and that so shames me for our own human race. Hugs for you! Molly |
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Megh Member Since: 04/11/07 [Latest Posts] | Post Date: 7/15/07 2:00 pm Last Edit: 7/15/07 2:04 pm So much of this resonates. ...One of the things that I keep thinking about (Shallow Hal) is an interview with the protagonist who went to a cafe during filming dressed up in her fatsuit. ...She detailed how horrible she felt when no one would look at her or even make eye contact when she spoke directly with them. ...She was floored by the ounce of discrimination she felt. ...Imagine a lifetime of brining in it. It is the last. acceptable. form. of. discrimination. |
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Christine M. GA Member Since: 06/20/07 [Latest Posts] | Post Date: 7/15/07 2:31 pm Amen. amen, amen................. And I have never had a medical problem that was not caused by my weight--no matter what it was. Christine |
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Bern Member Since: 06/02/07 [Latest Posts] | Post Date: 7/15/07 2:29 pm Wow Marney, Your post was so long and so worth reading every line. Thank you for sharing all of it. It seems you have had a high proportion of scummy insensitive people mis treat you. I've read many of your postings and can tell you got it going on girl. I've tried to correct young kids in my school when they start teasing anyone over anything...sometimes one just doesn't realize how deeply cruel and demeaning they are being, even after it is brought out to them. I can't believe some of the stuff said to you.... << |
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PlumpKitty Fredericton, Canada Member Since: 10/27/06 [Latest Posts] | Post Date: 7/15/07 2:29 pm Hi Marney ![]() I dont know where you are in the world but I say MOVE! I have been a 55 BMI and was never ever treated so poorly. As a child and teen , when I was overweight, I often got teased. That teasing was no more severe than the teasing everyone else got about one thing or another. As a 40 BMI I worked as a waitress and still got hit on all of the time. People, males and females, were always sweet and nice with me. Children always followed me everywhere like the Pied Piper. As a former christian I can say in MY experience they are generally the most biggotted and prejudiced group of people I have ever known. I chose my own church, much to my parents shagrin, and went to a non denominal christian church, aka new penecosts, holy rollers etc. I chose this church based on their obvious love and acceptance for people in general. However even with that said they too were also very predjudiced, just less so than my other prospects. My mother in law is beautiful. At 67 years old she often passes for 30 - 40 something. She is 5 feet 11 inches tall with long blond hair and blue eyes. She comes from a great family and has 2 university degrees. She is absolutely hilarious, interesting, sociable and far smarter than the average joe. She has also been single since she was in her early thirties. Yes she is a bit over weight, currently about a 30 BMI, no too shabby for a 67 year old If you asked her why men and her never clicked she will always say it is because of her height. Men dont like tall aggressive women (unless its for S&M) regardless of weight as hers has been under, just right and over too.Just my thoughts BIG HUGS for putting up with such insanity without getting violent! PK |
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TCFab07 Central, FL Member Since: 06/17/07 [Latest Posts] | Post Date: 7/15/07 3:11 pm Marnie, That was amazing, and I could relate to every example you gave. Just one of the situations I've experienced since moving here (N Fl), happened with a new group of friends I was spending time with. I was sitting at the edge of the women on my R with most of the men on my L and they're having a conversation about having sex "with a fat woman". I got the feeling that they felt I should be "honored" that they WOULD have sex with a "fat woman" (me), if she "was good to luck at", "had a pretty face", etc. I've tried to push most of that conversation (I excused myself, went to the ladies room, came out and said my goodbyes), so I don't remember too much. But those quotes are definite. But, then again, I have had experiences like PK's. It's just that the bad one's leave more of an impression than the good ones. Hang in there sister!! |
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MCGray Maumee, OH Member Since: 06/06/07 [Latest Posts] | Post Date: 7/15/07 3:17 pm Thanks for sharing that post! WOW! ![]() |
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Member Since: 10/30/04 [Latest Posts] | Post Date: 7/15/07 3:40 pm Marney, Your post is pivitol and poignant to say the least. I would like to answer you but I want to be able to give that answer as much attention, heart, and soul as you did with your post. As time does not permit that this aftertoon, I will write to you as soon as I am able to focus clearly. However, I would like to say that you have fascinated me (in a good way)! Talk with you soon!
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'bout 45 minutes from San Francisco, CA Member Since: 12/13/05 [Latest Posts] | Post Date: 7/15/07 4:00 pm I almost could have written that post myself. I can count on one hand the number of relationships that I've had. Guys always just wanted to be my friend or just dated me because "the fat chick will put out if I act like I care". When I met my husband, the first thing he said to me was "OMG! You are so beautiful." I was like yeah sure, you just want to get laid. It ain't happening to me again. I fell for that trick before. (22 year old daughter to show for it!) Nope, nope, nope. It took me many months before I began to believe he REALLY thought I was beautiful. What the heck was wrong with him? It took me several years to start believing it myself. I know why he was able to look past the exterior. His favorite aunt is a very big woman. She loved him unconditionally while he was growing up. His mother is a real ***** who made his life miserable. Because of his aunt, my husband is able to see me as I really am ... a smart, funny, caring, beautiful woman. I'm a very lucky. |
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melissa1973 CT Member Since: 03/08/07 [Latest Posts] | Post Date: 7/15/07 4:03 pm I was extremely depressed and felt hopeless after reading this post. Not because there was anything wrong with your heartfelt, but that there was so much truth in it, and the truth hurts. Especially the dating part, I haven't dated in so many years and I know it has everything to do with my weight. Even in personal ads online the hugest men list that the women who contact them should be slim/slender. Even if after I lose all my excess weight if I start going on dates, I won't be able to help myself thinking that none of these people would have dated me when I was fat. 339 / 151 / 155? day of surgery / current weight / goal weight 190 lbs lost View my profile to see my weekly stats. |
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volupteous Fort Carson, CO Member Since: 05/04/07 [Latest Posts] | Post Date: 7/15/07 4:43 pm Marney, what an amazing post. Thank you for sharing! I am lucky that my dh has stood with me through thick and thin (well, I never was thin, I am 5'9 and at my smallest, when we got married, I weight 190lbs). And I haven't heard or seen anybody snicker or laugh at me, but I think that is mainly because I just came to the realization that I never look at people when I'm out and about. I keep my head and eyes down, so as to not see the disapproving looks. I can't wait to walk tall and proud again. Uta |
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Elaine D. Fairbanks, AK Member Since: 03/10/07 [Latest Posts] | Post Date: 7/15/07 6:21 pm Last Edit: 7/15/07 6:26 pm Finally someone has put words to the pain I have been feeling about men and dating in our society. I am single and have been dating on and off through my various weight fluctuations over many years (I am now 35). After years of 4-8 month long monogamous relationships ending... I realized that the men who were with me were ONLY with me for particular things: (including but not limited to: regular sex (and yes, I am very good at it), regular movie companion, someone to call when no one else was available, someone safe to introduce to mom/dad... etc. etc. etc. Like Melissa said, it is the SAD TRUTH about most single men these days. Even the heavy men want slim/slender women. It is truly pathetic. I have been on many mainstream online dating services, and I am very picky --- I want a man with an education (oh my God is that too much to ask?), a stable job, similar values, similar political orientation... Yet, most men have profiles with a photo that looks like a freakin' mug shot and they don't write very much about themselves (read: they have little to offer but have very high physical standards in a date). What a joke. An absolutely sad, horrible, painfully laughable joke. As a professor and researcher of cultural anthropology, I have said often that I was born into the wrong culture. Perhaps Hawaii or New Zealand... or Samoa. Larger women, taller and heavier, are not seen as less beautiful (and sometimes they are seen as more beautiful) than thin, short women. I completely understand what Marney is saying about the self-esteem scapegate used and universally applied to all of us MO people. (The following does not apply to those of you with low self-esteems). Like Marney, I KNOW that I am worthy of a good and loving partner.... I have a lot of wonderful qualities and I am a good catch. (ALSO -- for some reason, both men and women tend to paint those of us heavy, but high self-esteem women as "aggressive" or overly "assertive" or masculine ---- what a bunch of gender-laden bullsh*t). When I lost a lot of weight before (starvation diet and exercise addict), I dropped to a size 8/10 and got hit on left and right. Indeed, my personality is very outgoing and probably became MORE SO when I was size 8/10. More recently, when I was around 238 lbs (height 5'9"), I did meet a guy that I really like and we started dating... only for it to evolve into a "friends with benefits" situation. Now that I know the cold hard truth about the way most men feel about my heavy (but shrinking) body... I don't want to deal with them at all. I'm beginning to think that perhaps it is best to keep my "Steve", because at least it is on terms that I can understand. He was really attracted to me when I was much heavier, but we just didn't feel a LOVE connection. At least I know that his passion is honest... its just loveless. I can deal with that much better than hoping and praying that I'm lucky enough to meet the .0001 percent of men who can see beyond the surface of weight to the SOUL of me. The saddest part? The more weight I lose, the less likely I am to believe a man will fall in love with me for qualities other than sex and my physical attractiveness. I am tired of the shallow foundation upon which men decide to confess/profess LOVE.... and as a single woman, it is a hard truth to swallow. Elaine |
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Mr. Jim P. Pittsburgh, PA Member Since: 03/23/06 [Latest Posts] | Post Date: 7/16/07 7:09 am Even the heavy men want slim/slender women. That attitude goes both ways, and I believe even more so with overweight women wanting slim and athletic guys. This is, of course, based on my own unscientific observations. |
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Iced Latte Northeastern, LA Member Since: 05/20/07 [Latest Posts] | Post Date: 7/16/07 10:28 am I had a friend once that was MO. He was in his twenties and THE NICEST guy. I was married already. I had two friends that I wanted to set him up with, neither were great looking and I didn't set him up because I know he wouldn't have gone out with them. I never understood why he went after only the "hot" girls to face rejection when he could have easily found true love if he didn't rely on outside beauty to quality a girl. |
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If you asked her why men and her never clicked she will always say it is because of her height. Men dont like tall aggressive women (unless its for S&M) regardless of weight as hers has been under, just right and over too.






