http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/post-RNY_Eating_Disorders/
This is a support group for people who have been through the Roux-en-Y weight loss surgery are at least 1 year out and who now have an eating disorder/disordered eating or continuance of a pre-RNY eating disorder. This support group will be a safe place for members to tell their stories -share their struggles - and help others in recovery. This is NOT a "how to" group. This is a group that will focus on recovery and how to use the WLS tool. We are not doctors or counselors - just others going through the same experiences.

What is said (written) on this list stays on this list. If you want to share someone's story with someone else please ask permission and always change or remove someone's name and/or e-mail address before copying - if you have received permission.

Any flaming - spamming - or sharing without permission will be reason for removal from the group.

These guidelines may change (get more stringent) as time goes on. This is intended to be a safe place - We will always strive to err on the side of safety rather than putting someone at risk.

MEMBERSHIP: While we do not wish to exclude someone in need, membership to this group will be limited to RNY post-ops who are past the honeymoon phase (at least one year post-op) of weight loss and are dealing with eating disorders in their struggle to achieve or maintain normal weight. We feel this is an important part of keeping our group a safe environment for all members and appreciate some may disagree.

Please be SPECIFIC when you apply for membership and state your RNY surgery type & date, and eating disorder/disordered eating issues so we do not inadvertantly deny you.

~ Sandra & Jamie ~

If you are a fairly new post-op or pre-op we recommend the groups below for support:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Graduate-OSSG (you can lurk & learn here, but not post until you are 1 year post-op)
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/GastricBypass-InfoCentral/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/OSSG-Protein

I hear this al the time..my response worth saving for me and others to read hopefully!

Your decision to tell is personal. Some say I am eating less and exercising, others say I am changing my lifestyle, some say I am on a medically supervised plan..all are the truth. SOme say I had gastric bypass surgery... I sometimes feel that internal unhappiness and shame of others *in addition to their uneducation* can be projected out in unsupporting ways. Instead of embracing our humanness, our differences (in opinions especially for so many if they aren;t right and we arent wrong they do not know what to do with both being right!) our uniqueness and the positive many still find the need to focus on the negative, differences and imperfections. This reminds me of my past of things never being good enough and my initial response is one of needing to make everyone happy and JUSTIFY myelf to be liked/accepted and to feel okay which led to a path of perfectionism and codependency and food addiction to take care of myself and soothe all that shame. Personally I am working hard at letting go of those triggers and learning to love myself for who I am at this moment and accepting my desicisions without the need for over explaination or justification. Today I celebrate me, my uniqueness, my humanity and my decisions, and I wish this for all of us. We may of been shamed for a lifetime but I am choosing to work on letting it go, giving the shame back to where it belongs and trying not to shame others in my process....

I tell everyone and I personally no longer care what they think, I stopped caring when I started caring about myself..I can not control others only my response to them! I thank people for thier concern and hear what they have to say and just drop it....Afterall it is about them and not me an I can let that go now! No more need to be defensive when I fully accept myself!!!

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It is common for friends/family members to respond to "OUR" choice to have surgery in non-supportive ways. There are many reasons, including jealousy, fear, concern etc; because what we do effects those closest to us. They may be uncomfortable, frightened, unable to adjust easily. All we can do is include them in our process so it may be beneficial to us both, educating them but ultimately if they adjust is their choice and beyond our control. We can assist in asking clearly and directly for what we need (it is then their choice to give it or not); ultimately this is our process and all we can do is be self responsible (w/ or w/o their support) for our journey. We can keep the lines of communication open, letting them know our feelings, as well as appreciation when they can offer support. Best case scenario is over time they can see we didn't take the 'easy way out', can assist us in our success and believe in our ability to make the tool work for a lifetime despite its limitations, and deal w/ their own feelings vs projecting them onto us if they are upset, angry, fearful so not to sabotage our efforts. We do not need police or critics, we need supporters/cheerleaders and empathetic listeners who can truly be there for the good/bad/ugly. It is not a competition but many friends/family can see it that way as quite threatening indeed. We ultimately can surround ourselves w/ positive energy and support or negative energy. It is a beautiful journey one that can assist us in loss of wt but growth in self esteem and personal growth to a healthier way of communicating in relationships, it may involve leaving sabotaging and unhealthy relationships so we can fully blossom, no longer being a victim of our circumstances, many times our self worth can keep us positive and enable us to choose healthier coping and healthier choices in communication and relationships. WLS can give us so much more than our physical health if we work at it! Our significant relationships can thrive and benefit as we get healthier, as we learn to love ourselves from the inside we will have so much more love to give others, vs the old self loathing and hate many had....As we work on the sabotaging relationships and any efforts those around us make to instill us with Fear (of abandonment/punishment), use of obligation or guilt to revert to old habits, make us feel selfish for our own wellness/self care. Learning to id these emotional blackmail techniques and ways to use boundaries, communication, negotiation either from some self help reading on the topics or therapy can be our best tool to deal w/ the changes WLS may bring to our lives/relationships, challenging yes, impossible no...Sometimes distance or leaving a relationship is our only choice but better than regain due to sabotage, NOONE has any intention at regaining wt after WLS, sadly it happens and all to frequently relationship stressors can be a major trigger to old emotional eating patterns, slowly they can resurface, after all we used them for years, it is not so easy to change (for ourselves or others).

For me I try and listen to what they are really saying before I get defensive, "I hear you are sad because or you seem angry because," Sometimes a simple acknowledgment (not agreement) is all anyone needs/wants. Offer that and agree to disagree, or finally use the "I feel, or I statements taking 'blame/judgment' out of the scenario which can escalate a situation.

Be well! It is a glorious journey one we would love to have assistance on, we can ask but sometimes we do not get, but we can get thru it! Support can come in many forms, online, in person support groups, places u may of never thought!

Post Date: 3/23/08 5:21 am
I recently responded to a post asking for some recipes as the 1 1/2 month postop loves to bake and cook and has a sweet toth that 'didn't go away as hoped' and that person is having many food cravings esp. salty/crunchy at times. They wanted ideas to cope/manage specifically a recipe or two!

Now I saw this in a different light, I indeed responded differently. Here are my thoughts..PLEASE share with me yours and how far out you are as I know our thoughts/ideas can morph over time to things we never would of recognized in an earlier time! Some of these things you have heard me say over and over...but they ring true for me and are the principles I strive to enbrace~
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I can so appreciate & relate to your current issues. I hope in sharing my story it may help some (although in an indirect way perhaps). My experience was similar. I was THE BAKER, THE COOK in the family. I obtained great joy, satisfaction and self esteem from these titles! I also obtained a morbidly obese body from tasting the fruits of my labor! It wasn't just the food for me, it was the psychological conceptual framework if you will that I operated from. This included Food=love, I cooked/baked to show others how I felt about them. I ate to feel loved as well! I cooked/baked/ate when I was sad, angry, bored, fearful (anxious) or lonely....I cooked/baked to fit in, hey if I was overweight I'd help everyone else be that too (subconciously)! It lessened my shame so to speak. Many with eating disorders do this I find. The first 2 months were such a emotional challenge for me. Liquids for first 2 wks, then again at 1 month out for 2 more weeks after a second surgery for a stricture from adhesions that caused an obstruction. This was a time my food addiction was very apparent. I couldn't chew anything to soothe what I was feeling! So I switched to watching the Food Network (AKA food porn LOL!) really. I had to have it.....Now fast forward to 7 months out, I had lost all but 15# of excess wt, was feeling awesome no physical hunger, wt flew off etc but I was still the same person, yes I ate smaller portions and exercised as well daily (it became an addiction as well that I am still working on today at 5 1/2 yrs out) ~B~U~T~ I did not change my thoughts, my use of psychology so my hunger returned(from all the dreaded carbs I ate albeit in small quantities that bit me in the but!) I could eat a greater variety and quantity of foods so yikes, I worried about regain!!! The fear fueled my exercise compulsion I HAD to do it daily, I had to do at least 7 hrs cardio a week, I had to spend 10 hrs at least in the gym or else (I am not sure my world would crash?)...I refocused at 7-12 months out, I found that my sugar cravings were in addition to emotional cues to soothe/numb/avoid/pure habit so to speak a result of protein deficiency! I believed I could derive protein from skim milk, heck I drank 2 cups a day! I ate protein..I was deficient, low protein can in many trigger carb cravings! ESPECIALLY in many who are insulin sensitive/pre-diabetic....I started the shakes as recommended, I looked to the southbeach framework for a LIFSTYLE (not a diet). Here I found a marriage between my needs as a gastric bypass patient and satiety from my PHYSICAL HUNGER I seemingly created by eating all the refined carbs! (Bread/crackers and milk IMHO but thats another story)....My labs didn't lie my prealbumin was tanking, my albumin low as well...Ehh ghads! I did this to be healthy.


What I had failed to discover to this point at 1-2 yrs out was the enormity of the decision I had made, what effort I would need to make FOREVER to live a healthy life. One that was surounded by support(online and in person), one that was full of my self awareness, my personal consistent RESPONSIBILTY and ACCOUNTABILITY! So into therapy I went by years 3-4 the emotional toll was great. I had changed, I physically was close to 160# lighter but my brain was still as heavy as preop. Filled with old negative tapes, low esteem, codependant characteistics that I found I was grazing to feed/calm/soothe/avoid.

What I found is the little things I so worried about (such as what to bring, if I needed a fan, if I could bring extra pillows or having the perfect plan postop, the perfect recipe etc really were attempts to soothe my anxiety and fear of the unknown (death, would I succeed/fail!), now I see that but the lesson just keeps coming up until I master it, the lesson is acceptance, letting go, making a decision and being ok with the outcome regardless if it turns out as I hoped because my plan is not always what is best for me!

I became consumed with WLS in general so much I 'lost my life/identity' to that LABEL (I was a WLS person) when in fact I am much more than that. That despite the OPERATION the need for myself to do personal growth (therapy, 12 step work, develop supportive network, learn to take care of me FIRST) around my personality/character traits of codependency and how they are so intertwined into my obesity no tool can fix those (although I wish it could of, that would of been magic as many of us hope WLS will be!). That in acceptance of myself at any moment, healthy boundaries, taking care of myself I could succeed or at least learn to reframe success as something more than a number on a scale or if I ate enough that day in protein or didn’t eat too many carbs or drank enough fluid or got exactly enough exercise in etc.

Surgery was the easy part looking back although going through it I thought it was the hard part (ha how skewed that was!) living the lifestyle after in a consistent, self responsible manner is the most CHALLENGING thing I have ever chosen to do, I did not realize preop the immense effort it takes each moment to be healthy! It is so worth that energy though the freedom it brings!

Sometimes we consume our lives with food, thinking about what we can and can not have, when we can eat or should eat, how much, how often, how it should be cooked, when to buy it, how much, etc that we occupy so much time and do not even realize that we have no time left to feel (the point) in an addiction, it takes over us so we can forget us and what we are scared/fearful of feeling/being. I think the WLS lifestyle can be a sort of addiction and escape for a while (until life overwhelms the beauty of the honeymoon!) and for myself exercise became an obsessive addiction as well.

I feel this is a courageous step we take, and it's not just about weight changing, eating the right food/recipe -- it's about life changing. This is why so many of us are challenged by the enormity of the decision.

Food cravings typically are in relation to out emotions. Different things signal different needs, as long as we focus on the gut to meet that need of the spirit/heart/head it willnever be filled and instead we go around hungry still....I shifted my thinking and identity away from food altogether. I rarely bake as I once did. I decided I can be loved for and love others in ways w/o food. Society is so obese that I do not need to add to the epidemic by baking weekly and at holidays (I kid you not I made at least 14 batches cookies 5 batches of fudge and countless batches of peanut britle around Christmas) Initially I wondered, what will people think if I don't? Well no one reallynoticed and hey I had more time. I discovered relationships are more inportant than the food. Eating out is about being with friends and family NOT the food. Reframing the importance of eating to live vs living to eat is helpful for me. I can cook but it doesn't have to be the way I show love/care/conscern or nurture those (kill them really!) I can now more than ever let go, accept what is, be in the moment with many uncomfortable feelings, not need to eat them down/away. I can listen to my body to tell me what I need really listen. I am not perfect (do not want to be) but this is my process, slow s it has been. So for me the recipe is self awareness, self love, acceptance, letting go with a dash of friendship, a cup of support, and maybe a pound or two of therapy along the way! I couldn't change mylife alone, I do not think anyone can.TOgether we can share our strength, hope and support and with that pay it forward. We can not keep what we do not give away!!!

Ask yourself, what am I REALLY hungry for? Many of us find in the quietness of our mind the heart says it is not food....We used to meet all our neds with food, now is a great opportunity to discover other ways to get out needs met w/o food, to realign food in a new way, refocus and reframe its place in our lives. Taking the emphasis off it we once had..In that we are free to be, discover and live fully!

I wish you well. Thanks for the topic again! I needed to remind myself how far I have come and how far I desire to go!
So my 'some more ideas' are not going to be recipe based, if you are not already consider some personal growth work (individual or/and group therapy, self help books such as those by www.geneenroth.com or Linda Spangle's Life is hard, food is easy etc, 12 step groups as indicated (CODA.org, OA.org etc)....I do cook and i do bake but they no longer define me, I define me and there is so much more I can give and be!
http://www.obesityhelp.com/forums/NY/a,messageboard/board_id,4836/cat_id,4436/topic_id,3564726/action,replies/

http://www.obesityhelp.com/forums/NY/a,messageboard/board_id,4836/cat_id,4436/topic_id,3563245/action,replies/

My reply to the info on Carnie Wilson's regain!
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Ahh what to learn from this....(So many things we/I can consider...)

CHOICES:
We all have choices every day, each moment. Carnie tells us about choices she has made not only in this article but past ones as well her challenges with (snacking, lack of exercise, pregnancy, alcohol *over*use). Most of these challenges for me signal not managing the emotional side. The wt regain is a symptom of the unresolved emotional toils, the coping style chosen to numb/avoid the internal world we all have.

CONTROL:
We may all want to be in control, all the time but reality is we are not. I have been pulling out Steven Covey's work recently and looking at my circle of influence vs my circle of concern. If I stay within my (SMALL) circle of influence I tend to be less reactive, happier and healthier... The fear does not consume me as much as when I stay in my larger circle of concern!

When I stay in my circle of concern where I have no control I tend to worry, fret and allow the fear to paralyze me and hence my need to try and control what I can (food, exercise, choices). My condition is the same as many the human condition, accepting it and embracing it always helps.

Alas I am human and choose to deny/repress/avoid and the fact at times I am not perfectly in control of everything...Then I can only manage so much concern and I overeat, graze, sabatoge my exercise etc. I do find as Covey points out when I stay in my circle of influence I can expand that in fact, less stress and less compulsion to sabotage self..

REALISTIC EXPECTATIONS:
Is it realistic to have a surgery on one's gastrointestinal system and be cured of the disease MORBID OBESITY, glorious as it sounds and as deceiving as the first few years can be for many statistics do not lie. Individual differences may vary but in reality that TERMINAL UNIQUENESS we all feel seems to lessen over time. (I will lose it all, despite the typical, I won't regain a pound, I won't ever eat sugar, I won't transfer addictions, I won't get divorced/seperated, I will be different......No grazing for me, I won't touch soda again, candy etc...THAT WON'T BE ME! *Don't be so sure, never say never!

Perhaps but the odds are not in our favor to be unique...We can go back to what we can influence, if we fall short of perfection (which is not something to aim for IMHO any longer) or our unrealistic expectations then what?

SUCCESS/FAILURE:
What is this? What does it mean to you. What is your personal definition. Is it realistic, can it be adapted, altered? Should it be? Are we using old tapes that no longer fit today? Now this moment? Can success be where you are now? No matter what? this leads me to ACCEPTANCE NOW....Are we shamebased, do we have to stay that way? What purpose does staying a victim serve? Are we deciding to stay there or change that?
That in acceptance of myself at any moment, healthy boundaries, taking care of myself I could succeed or at least learn to reframe success as something more than a number on a scale or if I ate enough that day in protein or didn’t eat too many carbs or drank enough fluid or got exactly enough exercise in etc.

KEEP ON YOUR PATH/JOURNEY:
Surgery was the easy part looking back although going through it I thought it was the hard part (ha how skewed that was!) living the lifestyle after in a consistent, self responsible manner is the most CHALLENGING thing I have ever chosen to do, I did not realize preop the immense effort it takes each moment to be healthy!

It is so worth that energy though the freedom it brings!
WLS is one of the million steps on my life’s journey *it is not the destination*!

This is a courageous step for us to take, and it's not just about weight changing -- it's about life changing. This is why so many of us are challenged by the enormity of the decision and why we sometimes stop walking on our journey and sometimes seemingly need/decide to revisit old places, but is that going back to a plce where a lesson is still waiting for us to learn. Opportunities are always available, learn now or come back and learn later I am discovering!

FEAR:
I chose to define my self as a warrior, one who never turns her back on the battlefield (my battlefields are obesity and self sabotage)...
I am learning I can have fear and do things anyways! I am learning to embrace fear, harness it's power and move forward on my journey also. I am learning I do not have to allow the fear to paralyze me or make me stay anywhere I do not want! I can be defined my many things and fear does not have to be one anymore! Fear only has power when I turn it over...the CHOICE is mine!

LESSONS:
My lesson is acceptance, letting go, making decisions and being ok with the outcome regardless if it turns out as I hoped because my plan is not always what is best for me! This theme comes up over and over again! I am starting to get it more and more! Sounds like Carnie is learning too.

LABELS/DEFINITION OF SELF:
I once was consumed with WLS in general so much I 'lost my life/identity' to a LABEL (I was a WLS person) when in fact I am much more than that. That despite the OPERATION the need for myself to do personal growth (therapy, 12 step work, develop supportive network, learn to take care of me FIRST) around my personality/character traits of codependency and how they are so intertwined into my obesity no tool can fix those (although I wish it could of, that would of been magic as many of us hope WLS will be!).
I would not be who I am or where I am without my past, I am choosing to be grateful today for all my struggles/challenges, as they were only lessons and opportunities that presented themselves and that I have been able to embrace and learn and grow from. Without them I would not be where or who I am today. SO I AM GRATEFUL for the good, bad and ugly!
I needed those things such as my exercise addiction to be able to see that balance is possible, that feeling is okay, that I am okay the way I am, that I am loveable, that I can make decisions and live with the outcome!

On a personal note my thoughts, feelings and opinions have changed from the newbie at 7 months who thought that she found this magical fix for all that ailed (huge belly laughs and almost as huge tears of sadness at that shock of the rose colored glasses breaking once again), to the may I say cocky 1-2 yr postop who KNEW IT ALL and was UNIQUE and PERFECT and was going to tell everyone how to do it, to the SCARED AS HECK 3-4 year postop full of fear at the loss she once had, who started to identify out of shame of regain, guilt at loss of perfection to a more seasoned 5 year postop who has done lots of personal growth, reflection and who now knows she can define herself any way at any moment.

I have transformed, transcended and still am here to offer up what I have been to others who may be there or soon to be there. I also stay to learn from others their challenges, struggles and successes. I am open to others views, opinions and ways. I am a little less rigid and if my way is diffrent that doesn;t mean I am right or wrong, I am just different..its ok, NEAT in fact!

Oh too much rambling this am!
I have been ontrack and off, although was it offtrack or aplace I needed to be and learn from? Nothing happens w/o cause. I have needed to have the fear, the regain, I needed it all and am grateful for it. Truly as strange as it may sound. I am excited about today. I may be 20# heavier than I was 2 years ago, but hey I am 140# less than 5 1/2 yrs ago. Although I do not want thenumber to define me lets be real success can be defined in many ways. The success is I am ahead far far ahead in so many ways. OK off the soapbox! Thanks Karen. I needed to explore these thoughts today. I went to see my clinical nutrition MD yesterday. I went because I needed to despite the awareness of some shame of my wt, not wanting to admit it (Ok so much for living in here and now and acceptance !) But I did it, I did not cancel, I went with a plan to not be defensive, not make excuses, to be real. I felt empowered when I left. We spoke about many things. About being hungry is ag good thing, research states cetain chemicals are released only on an empty stomach and they raise metabolism. SO I can embrace physical hunger vs avoid it now, or intellectually think that way. Restructuring my thoughts!

I can change my behaviors around grazing/snacks if it isn't one of my 3-4meals I do not eat it (back to need to be hungry at times), I liked that framework that has helped many. I am trying that hat on now to see how it fits for a while!I took that appointment to accept me as I am, redefine success, control what I could, embrace some new strategies, ask for help (hard for me) and let go. It was so awesome! (Thankss Dr. Denning!)..In 30 min we got to the heart of the matter, back to my stress management..and I redefined what was my goal, what is improtant! I left with a renwal of self. So...I am where i need to be but I also know where I am going and it is ahead!

I am going for a massage today as I am worth it, and will do it because it will be a thing I can control in my circle of influence. I am takign care of me, I am a warrior who needs some TLC! Really I am done now! LOL

Take Care,
Jamie Ellis RN MS NPP
100cm proximal Lap RNY 10/9/02 Dr. Singh Albany, NY
320(preop)/163(lowest)/185(current) 5'9'' (lost 45# before surgery)
Plastics 6/9/04 & 11/11/2005 Dr. King www.albanyplasticsurgeons.com
http://www.obesityhelp.com/member/jamiecatlady5/

Well I ran local support group Monday eve, that was great! We talked about GUILT and Food and WLS. Cam home slept around 930 pm, awoke 12midnight WENT TO bathroom AND WOW EXPLOSIONS n/v/d CHILLS, FEVER I THOUGHT i WAS GOING TO PASS OUT AND HIT MY HEAD ON brFLOOR! lol (SORRY tmi!) iT CAME FAST AND LASTED ALL DAY YUCK, i HATE SICKNESS AND MISSING WORK. but I was on mend sleeping sipping all day able to eat by dinner a englishmuffin and scrambled egg/cheese slept all night adn felt good in am off to work! Ahh thank goodness!