| 1choice |
| Insurer Policy |
1choice |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (04/10/05) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic Lap Band |
| Pre-Op BMI |
71.3 |
| Source |
Dena C |
| AAI |
| Insurer Policy |
AAI |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (08/17/01) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY |
| Pre-Op BMI |
53.4 |
| Comments |
I work at St. Charles in Bend so i could not tell you if i was approved so fast because i was an employee or not.
It was a very fast process for me. I talked with them and they called back the following day and told me all was approved.
I hear bad stories so i can not elaberate more cause i did not have any problems at all. |
| Source |
Donna S |
| Insurer Policy |
AAI |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (09/22/01) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY - distal |
| Source |
Jeannette C |
| Insurer Policy |
AAI |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (June 15, 2003) |
| Weeks to approval |
1 |
| Comorbidities |
Hypertension, arthritis of both knees, Glycohemoglobin high, sleep apnes/disorder, GERD, Hyperlipide |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
I had a very easy time with all the information the physician included was enough to get me approved the very first time. In fact, they received the letter on a Monday, (which is the day they do approvals) and we heard two days later.
They didn't stall with me at all, although I had already started gathering information for an appeal. I was rather shocked. Must be my old age of 51.
I know you need to be an employee of either SCMC or COCH for this particular Insurance Package. This is a Self-Insured Agency! |
| Source |
Debbie S |
| Insurer Policy |
AAI (PPO) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (02/15/04) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY |
| Weeks to approval |
1 |
| Pre-Op BMI |
39.3 |
| Comorbidities |
sleep apnea, diabetes, hypercholesteremia, GERD, Lumbago, Sciatica |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
My ins company was wonderful, they understood that this is and was medically nec for my life and future. |
| Source |
Charlene K |
| aetena |
| Insurer Policy |
aetena (ppo) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (04/06/05) |
| Source |
Charlene R |
| Aetna |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (4/25/2000) |
| Surgery Type |
Open Duodenal Switch |
| Weeks to approval |
1 |
| Pre-Op BMI |
62.8 |
| Comorbidities |
Sleep apnea, hypertension, depression, joint and muscle pain |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Source |
Mac W |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (10/27/00) |
| Surgery Type |
Open RNY |
| Weeks to approval |
11 |
| Pre-Op BMI |
56.7 |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
Aetna lost 2 faxes (which was the letter of medical necessity), so when Dr. McConnell's assitant followed up they said they never received the letter. This went on from July until the beginning of September when Aetna finally received the THIRD letter (same letter resubmitted). At this time they put a rush on it and came back with a discision in 2 weeks. |
| Source |
Lynne R |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (PPO/Premium) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (12/28/00) |
| Surgery Type |
Open RNY |
| Weeks to approval |
2 |
| Pre-Op BMI |
39.5 |
| Policy |
Don't know |
| Comments |
I didn't have to deal with the insurance company. Dr. Flanagan and his staff did it all for me. The response was quick. I would recommend this insurance company to anyone. |
| Source |
Alicia M |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (PPO) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (2/98) |
| Surgery Type |
Open RNY - proximal |
| Weeks to approval |
2 |
| Pre-Op BMI |
47.0 |
| Comorbidities |
High Blood Pressure, Mild Sleep Apnea, Asthma, aches and pains in hips and back |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
They were wonderful and also approved redundant skin removal in 2 weeks. |
| Source |
Beth B |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (HMO) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (08/17/01) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY |
| Weeks to approval |
1 |
| Pre-Op BMI |
40.1 |
| Comorbidities |
Hypertension, Sleep Apnea, Bursitis in hips, diabetic , GERD |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
I have done some research and have taken a second job with a company that has insurance that covers the surgery. Thank you to all that have posted insurance comments. It really helped to direct me in the right direction. In 90 days I will be covered by the new insurance, in the mean time I am taking care of all my pre-op appointments so they will be done by then.
8/1/01
I am now also covered by Aetna.
8/10/01
My file has been submitted to Aetna for approval.
8/17/01
I have been approved for surgery. |
| Source |
Sheryl |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (PPO) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (9/30/01) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY - distal |
| Weeks to approval |
8 |
| Pre-Op BMI |
50.3 |
| MD-supervised programs |
3 (102 weeks) |
| Comorbidities |
Sleep apnea, diabetes |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
They never acknowledged receiving the letter from the doctor. They sent it, faxed it, I faxed it. Once they finally acknowledged receiving it we got the approval within 3 weeks.
Follow up, follow up, follow up.
The request is processed by a different department but claims should be able to tell you once they acknowledge receipt of the request. |
| Source |
Debi A |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (MANAGED CHOICE) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter |
| Surgery Type |
Open RNY |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Source |
Wendy M |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (PPO) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (4/2/02) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY |
| Weeks to approval |
9 |
| Pre-Op BMI |
62.4 |
| MD-supervised programs |
1 (6 weeks) |
| Comorbidities |
High blood pressure, acute edema, hypothyroidism, sleep apnea, constant knee and ankle pain, GERD |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
I have been calling Aetna often, every operator has a different 'story.' Keep notes, demand answers and remain persistant!
1/25/02--Called AETNA to see if they had received my formal request--they don't have any information and have not received anything.
2/02/02--Sandy from Dr. P's office called yesterday. It seems as if AETNA wants proof of two individual 3-month diets that have failed. They need a letter from my dietitian, my PCP and another letter from Dr. P. They already have this information--I included all my medical records from the past seven years! I don't understand why insurance companies have such STUPID policies that are not followed through with all patients!
2/5/02--The LAP-BAND was denied because it is considered 'experimental' by AETNA. Oh well, round two!
3/15/02--RNY request was faxed in today.
3/25/02--I have been calling AETNA everyday since I found out that info had been resubmitted. Today they want my medical records sent in in order to proove that I have been MO for at least 5 years.
3/29/02--Okay, something was received but the rep could not tell from the incomplete notation! I'll be calling back on Monday! MAJOR STALLING!
4/2/02--OMG--they did it--they APPROVED my surgery after finally getting the packet that I sent. It took less than 24 hours after Nurse Mia received my info!!!!!
4/8/02--OMG--even though Good Sam is out-of-network AETNA is paying at the in-network rate because my surgeon only used that hospital! Thank you AETNA!!!
NEW INSURANCE AS OF 1/1/03--LIFEWISE. All I can say is thank God I had Aetna for the WLs portion of my transformation! Lifewise won't even pay for an office visit to my PCP to discuss the issues I'm having with my large apron/fat pocket. They consider anything to do with weight to be obesity-related and exclude everything accordingly. I was having back, shoulder and neck pain due to the excess fat/skin and they denied my office visit because it was 'obesity-related.' UGH! You don't know how mad this makes me! I've been told by two surgeons that Lifewise NEVER pays for reconstructive surgery, especially after ELS because it's 'weight-related.' I also have insurance through my university so we'll see how that goes!!!!! |
| Source |
J S |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna |
| Insurer Status | Denied after first letter (07/01/01) |
| Source |
Jamie W |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (07/08/08) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY |
| Pre-Op BMI |
50.1 |
| Comorbidities |
sleep apnea |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Source |
Angela W |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna |
| Insurer Status | Approved after appeal letter (08/04/01) |
| Surgery Type |
Open Duodenal Switch |
| Pre-Op BMI |
101.4 |
| Source |
Scott D |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (traditional) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (10/24/01) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY |
| Weeks to approval |
6 |
| Pre-Op BMI |
47.8 |
| Policy |
Don't know |
| Source |
Angela G |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (PPO) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (8/2002) |
| Surgery Type |
RNY |
| Pre-Op BMI |
52.5 |
| Comments |
ODS my first Insurance company was the absolute worst. After 10 months of fighting with them with my attorney they still denied me.
New insurance as of July 1, 2002 (Aetna) still waiting for their answer. |
| Source |
Jennifer F |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (Managed Choice POS) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after appeal letter (10/15/01) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY |
| Weeks to approval |
26 |
| Pre-Op BMI |
46.6 |
| Comorbidities |
Sleep Apnea |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
Generally reasonable. Their policy is clearly stated on their website. Repeated failure at physician-supervised weight loss & BMI higher than 40, unless other comorbidities exist (e.g., Sleep Apnea). I didn't send in the documentation, so I had to send away for it and await the appeals process. |
| Source |
Miguel C |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (Managed Choice POS) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after 2nd appeal letter (02/08/02) |
| Surgery Type |
Open RNY |
| Weeks to approval |
24 |
| MD-supervised programs |
2 (20 weeks) |
| Comorbidities |
GERD, sleep disorder, two page list of problems |
| Policy |
Written exclusion policy |
| Comments |
I think Aetna denies all initial, first and second appeals. I needed to write to them personally, and send them a two page letter of problems associated with my weight before they changed their minds. They did set a time limit. Which I think they hope will expire before I can find a surgeon, get tested and set a date. |
| Source |
Danny J |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (04/03/02) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY - proximal |
| MD-supervised programs |
1 0 |
| Source |
Julie F |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (EPO) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (04/11/02) |
| Surgery Type |
Open RNY |
| Pre-Op BMI |
55.3 |
| Source |
Michelle K |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna |
| Insurer Status | First letter sent - still waiting (04/30/02) |
| Source |
Muffette M |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (6/07/02) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY - proximal |
| Comments |
The people at Aetna were great. There were lots of questions and extra paperwork to fill out, but never once did they make me feel like I was bugging them (and believe me, I called EVERY day). The certifying RN gave me my info over the phone and really worked with the Dr.'s office to get me a quick surgery date based on my needs. They were great. |
| Source |
Tina M |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (Providence Preferred) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (11/04/02) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY |
| Pre-Op BMI |
59.5 |
| Comorbidities |
Sleep Apnea, GERD, Hiatal Hernia, High Cholesterol |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
10/23/02 Doctor's office faxed Aetna pre-certification request for surgery.
11/04/02 Aetna informed doctor's office of my approval for surgery!
I had no problems with AETNA covering my surgery or any of the additional bills because of complications of my RNY surgery. They are awesome! |
| Source |
E D |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (PPO) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after appeal letter (05/27/03) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY |
| Weeks to approval |
16 |
| Pre-Op BMI |
49.6 |
| MD-supervised programs |
2 (56 weeks) |
| Comorbidities |
HYPERTENSION, GERD, MILD APNEA |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
AETNA PPO WAS THE PITS TO DEAL WITH. MY SURGEON SENT IN MY INITIAL LETTER AND I WAS DENIED. THEY HAVE TO HAVE SIX MONTHS MEDICALLY DOCUMENTED DIET HISTORY AND 5 YEARS WORTH OF MEDICAL RECORDS SHOWING THAT YOU HAVE BEEN OBESE. I WROTE THEM A LETTER ALONG WITH ALL OF THE ABOVE INFORMATION AND I WAS APPROVED.....BUT THEY WOULD NOT APPROVE THE HOSPITAL THAT MY SURGEON PRACTICES AT. SO.... IT WAS BACK ON THE PHONE AND THE FRUSTRATION WAS THAT EVERYONE AT AETNA KEPT GIVING ME A DIFFERENT ANSWER. MY SUGGESTION IS TO GO STRAIGHT TO THE SUPERVISORS SUPERVISOR... GOOD LUCK! |
| Source |
Heather H |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (Aetna PPO/POS) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after appeal letter (12/15/03) |
| Weeks to approval |
10 |
| MD-supervised programs |
5 (72 weeks) |
| Comorbidities |
Arthritis-Knees, Hypertension, Sleep Apnea, Low Back Pain |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
Sent my appeal letter to Aetna. It turns out the company I work for is self-insured. We have a unit within Aetna that handles only Liberty Mutual/Wausau employees' health issues. The case manager told me Dr. Friedman's request went to the wrong department and their denial wasn't valid. It took 2 weeks and I was approved. My surgery date is 1/13/04.
|
| Source |
Cynthia B |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna |
| Insurer Status | Denied after first letter (06/22/03) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY - distal |
| Pre-Op BMI |
40.7 |
| Source |
Carol S |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (EPO) |
| Insurer Status | First letter sent - still waiting (1/29/04) |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
So far dealing with my Insurance Co. has been good. They have paid 100% so far on my sleep apena test. |
| Source |
Debbie S |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (PPO) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after appeal letter (07/21/03) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY |
| Weeks to approval |
8 |
| Pre-Op BMI |
43.5 |
| MD-supervised programs |
1 (52 weeks) |
| Comorbidities |
Sleep apnea, GERD, hiatal hernia, hip pain |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
Aetna is very easy to work with as long as you fulfill all of their requirements before submitting your paperwork.
They didn't stall at all--I was very impressed.
Yes, they definitely respond to persistence. I had to write an appeal letter and they handled it very quickly and efficiently.
Just make sure you have all of the requirements fulfilled and well documented. Don't get discouraged if they deny you--I have heard of many people who have had their first appeal approved with no problems (including myself). |
| Source |
Deana B |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (PPO) |
| Insurer Status | First letter sent - still waiting (07/23/03) |
| MD-supervised programs |
2 (12 weeks) |
| Source |
Lisa E |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (Alaska Care Health Plans) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after appeal letter (11/30/04) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY |
| Pre-Op BMI |
40.2 |
| MD-supervised programs |
2 (6 weeks) |
| Comorbidities |
diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholestrol, fibromyalgia, arthritis, chronic back pain. |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
Their turn around time is approximatley one to two weeks. I think they are very prompt once they have all the information required. I was initially denied because of a misunderstanding on my mental evaluation. Once that was cleared up, it was approved immediately.
I would recommend anyone applying to this company get a copy of the Clinical Policy Bulletin Number 0157 Subject: Obesity Surgery. This bulletin tells all their requirements. Follow it and supply them with what it says and you should have no problem. Be sure to give a copy of the bulletin to your clinic. |
| Source |
Tanna C |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (ppo) |
| Insurer Status | Denied after first letter (03/29/04) |
| Source |
Carrie J |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (PPO) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after appeal letter (04/09/04) |
| Source |
Cynthia B |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (Open Choice - PPO) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (05/12/04) |
| MD-supervised programs |
2 (50 weeks) |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
Aetna will approve RNY if deeemed medically necessary. However, they specifically exclude banding surgery, which is my preferred option. I am currently gathering information and writing history in anticipation of needing appeal, whole proceeding with the surgeons pre-visit requirements. |
| Source |
Kristen R |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna |
| Insurer Status | First letter sent - still waiting (06/15/04) |
| MD-supervised programs |
5 (48 weeks) |
| Source |
Teresa S |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna |
| Insurer Status | Approved after appeal letter (07/24/04) |
| Surgery Type |
Open RNY |
| Weeks to approval |
3 |
| Pre-Op BMI |
51.5 |
| Comorbidities |
diabetes, sleep apnea, high blood pressure |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
Our doctor did the battling with the insurance company, so I have little knowledge about the details.
I think they automatically reject the first request at the hope you will be discouraged and go away. But the doctors office wouldn't take that for an answer and they finally agreed. Also had the history of Aetna approving the surgery for other coworkers. |
| Source |
Maryanne P |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (PPO) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (10-21-04) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY |
| Weeks to approval |
1 |
| MD-supervised programs |
1 (36 weeks) |
| Comorbidities |
Type 2 Diabetes, Hyperlipidemia, Hypertension, Severe Sleep Apnea, GERD, Bladder Incontenience, hypo |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
I just feel that I am too young to face these co-morbidities the rest of my life...all of these are weight related. I feel pretty confident about my insurance approving...Aetna does have a history of approving this surgery...and I have been completing EVERY requirement and then some!...so far...I would definately recommend this insurerer..although I read on this site that as of 1-1-05 they will no longer cover WLS...hopefully that is just a rumor****UPDATE>>>>APPROVED AFTER JUST 9 BUSINESS DAYS!!! AETNA WAS WONDERFUL !! |
| Source |
Jill R |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (PPO) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (09/27/04) |
| Surgery Type |
RNY |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
I know that they are very helpfull with all my other complications, But again I'm just starting this procedure and not sure yet how Aetna will respond. I got approved in 5 working days for the surgery. I did everything that they require for approval and they have been nothing but wonderful to me. Thank You Aetna !! |
| Source |
Sherbearkisses4U (Sherri) |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (managed care) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (02/11/05) |
| Source |
Chris P |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (02/15/05) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY |
| Weeks to approval |
1 |
| Comorbidities |
hypertension, |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
my insurance approved after I went through the 6 month Dr Supervised Diet. It only took 1 week to get the approval after a year of getting the requirements done.
I never spoke with the insurance company, Susan at Dr Read's office took care of the paperwork.
I would recommend to others out there find out what it is that your insurance requires and do it...
|
| Source |
Darla M |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (EPO) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (11/14/06) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY |
| Weeks to approval |
1 |
| Pre-Op BMI |
46.3 |
| MD-supervised programs |
1 (24 weeks) |
| Comorbidities |
none |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Source |
Katrina W |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna |
| Insurer Status | Approved after appeal letter (11/26/05) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY |
| Weeks to approval |
6 |
| Pre-Op BMI |
47.9 |
| Comorbidities |
Chronic skin conditions, Depression, GERD, Hypercholesterolemia, Shortness of breath, Sleep apnea |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
I was denied the first time I applied due to not having met the requirements of my policy. I had to return to my doctor for monthly visits specificlly for wt. loss, documenting how I was attempting to change my behaviors with a physician supervised diet. I had to go in each month, get weighed, discuss how I was doing on my diet, the new things I was trying each time to lose more wt. (walking more, joined a gym, working out daily, keepinng food/calorie journal, increasing water intake, etc.) so my doctor could document my attempts at behavior modification. My BMI qualified my from the get-go, and after I submitted again with the necessary requirements met, I was approved.
I am still fighting with the hospital, to provide the proper documentation, for the insurance to pay however.
The most important thing was to go to my doctor each month specificlly for wt. loss, and physician supervised diets to get everything documented. |
| Source |
Lori F |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (04/05/07) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY |
| Pre-Op BMI |
62.4 |
| Comorbidities |
GERD, Hypertension, Shortness of breath, Mild sleep apnea |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
Aetna was great! They were very helpful and fast in getting my pre-certiciation authorized. I would recommend people get a copy of Aetna's clinical policy bulletin #157 and make sure they have all the documentation and other requirements met. I did, and that is why I was approved in just under 24 hours! I love Aetna! |
| Source |
Kristal N |
| Insurer Policy |
Aetna (Managed Choice) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after appeal letter |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY - proximal |
| Source |
Darla S |
| Alternative Risk Management |
| Insurer Policy |
Alternative Risk Management |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (07/10/02) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic RNY |
| Source |
Gina Y |
| AmCare |
| Insurer Policy |
AmCare |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (06/17/02) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic Other |
| Pre-Op BMI |
40.1 |
| Source |
Sharon C |
| American Postal Workers |
| Insurer Policy |
American Postal Workers (First Health) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after appeal letter (06-11-02) |
| Surgery Type |
Open Duodenal Switch |
| Weeks to approval |
4 |
| Comorbidities |
arthritis,hypertension |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
Must be medically necessary, need psycological evaluation, diet history.
Once they recieved the first letter they requested record of medically supervised diets. My personal physician wrote an excellent letter covering two diets he supervised the longest on being for approximitley 7 months. Seven days after they received this letter I got approval.
I had some inside connections and had to verify receipt of each letter and demand faxed responces to avoid further delay.
Generally OK but certainley felt no urgency to process quickley. |
| Source |
Margaret L |
| Anthem Blue Cross |
| Insurer Policy |
Anthem Blue Cross (PPO) |
| Insurer Status | Approved after first letter (12/03/2007) |
| Surgery Type |
Laparoscopic Lap Band |
| Pre-Op BMI |
43.3 |
| Comorbidities |
hypertension, GERD |
| Policy |
Must be medically necessary |
| Comments |
The caseworkers, Lisa and Teresa are just wonderful! |
| Source |
Deborah H |