Question/thought/curiosity

Amy R.
on 3/9/19 12:41 pm, edited 3/9/19 4:52 am

On March 7, 2019 at 7:44 PM Pacific Time, kairosgrammy wrote: On March 7, 2019 at 6:03 PM Pacific Time, Sparklekitty, Science-Loving Derby Hag wrote:

I see your paragraph about "real food." I think this is pretty contrary to a lot of advice from surgeons and veterans. Veggies are great, but NOT what your body needs when losing weight. If it was a smart idea to eat veggies first, doctors would recommend it all around. I'm a bit concerned that you're ignoring advice and doing whatever you want-- at least, that's how your post reads.

Veggies DO fill you up. It's not a lasting satiety, like protein, but even when "compacted in your pouch" they will take up space that would be much better-served by protein.

Regarding the first question, many veterans DO eat a single food and call it good. My surgeon's maintenance advice is still "protein first, then a bite or two of veggie if you have room." Even in maintenance!

"Real foods" and a "balanced diet" are great common-sense concepts for people who've never been MO or SMO, but a lot of the rules don't apply to us.

I get around 130 grams of protein a day and I'm not trying to lose. I am actually in maintenance and I did discussed this with my nutritionist when I went in to talk to her about maintenance. I like success so I do tend to discuss before I do. Yes, veggies do fill you up but it sure takes a lot more of them and again, I'm hesitant to rely solely on vitamin supplementation to get what I need nutritionally, that's not being contrary, it's just good sense. Actually, my nutritionist told me I'm the poster child for this surgery. I am very aware that my actions can make being a poster child for the surgery into being the poster child of how not to eat. I live in fear of regain and I will not knowingly jeopardize my weight loss. Right now, my struggle is not eating enough and still losing. So that is my primary focus, eat more. I weigh daily so I will know if I need to stop that approach.

And food rules do apply to us. If you eat a lot of crap, you will gain weight. If you eat a lot of sugary products, you will gain weight. If you eat a lot of processed food, you will gain weight. If you eat more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. If you eat a lot of low cal veggies, no matter how hard you try, you will not gain weight. Calories in, calories out still apply to us. The reason protein is recommended, particularly during the weight loss stage is #1, we do malabsorb and protein is more difficult for the body to process and so a lot goes out in waste, we eat more protein to compensate for what we can't use. #2, we need protein so that we don't lose muscle which is why you should also exercise and weight train. So if I'm getting adequate protein (more than is actually recommended, btw) and I'm exercising and doing strength training which are necessary for muscle retention, I think I can eat veggies and complex carbs too.

At my nutritionist's recommendation, I don't drink when I eat (unless I forget which is about once in a blue moon), I get plenty of protein, I eat healthy, whole foods most of the time, I read ingredient lists and avoid processed food and I exercise and work hard. I stay on top of any and all medical conditions that might slow me down and I take good care of myself. Do I follow all the rules perfectly, no I don't and anyone that says they do is either not present in life or they are lying. Do I follow them as well as I can, yes. Do I do extensive research into diet, exercise, bariatric surgery and it's requirements to be successful and all things weight loss? Yes, I do. Why do I research? Because knowledge is power and success. The more I know, the more I know what to do.

I'm sorry if this post seems negative to you but yours really rubbed me the wrong way. You took what I said and turned it into something else. I said very clearly that I make sure I get enough protein and I do. But I still do and will continue to eat a bite of this and a bite of that when I eat because that is how I enjoy eating. And if I'm honest, I eat my protein last because, as I did when I was a child, I save the best for last.

posterity. and because somewhere in this thread the OP mentioned that truth provided helpfully or in a helpful manner or some such would be considered by her. I strongly suggest that truth, real and verifiable should be considered regardless. Including and especially the documented experiences of WLS post ops more than 18 months out. Example: I have my experiences. I also happen to have my weekly weigh in logs back to 2012. The two agree. That is called truth.

kairosgrammy
on 3/11/19 11:26 am
RNY on 10/17/17
On March 9, 2019 at 8:41 PM Pacific Time, Amy R. wrote:

On March 7, 2019 at 7:44 PM Pacific Time, kairosgrammy wrote: On March 7, 2019 at 6:03 PM Pacific Time, Sparklekitty, Science-Loving Derby Hag wrote:

I see your paragraph about "real food." I think this is pretty contrary to a lot of advice from surgeons and veterans. Veggies are great, but NOT what your body needs when losing weight. If it was a smart idea to eat veggies first, doctors would recommend it all around. I'm a bit concerned that you're ignoring advice and doing whatever you want-- at least, that's how your post reads.

Veggies DO fill you up. It's not a lasting satiety, like protein, but even when "compacted in your pouch" they will take up space that would be much better-served by protein.

Regarding the first question, many veterans DO eat a single food and call it good. My surgeon's maintenance advice is still "protein first, then a bite or two of veggie if you have room." Even in maintenance!

"Real foods" and a "balanced diet" are great common-sense concepts for people who've never been MO or SMO, but a lot of the rules don't apply to us.

I get around 130 grams of protein a day and I'm not trying to lose. I am actually in maintenance and I did discussed this with my nutritionist when I went in to talk to her about maintenance. I like success so I do tend to discuss before I do. Yes, veggies do fill you up but it sure takes a lot more of them and again, I'm hesitant to rely solely on vitamin supplementation to get what I need nutritionally, that's not being contrary, it's just good sense. Actually, my nutritionist told me I'm the poster child for this surgery. I am very aware that my actions can make being a poster child for the surgery into being the poster child of how not to eat. I live in fear of regain and I will not knowingly jeopardize my weight loss. Right now, my struggle is not eating enough and still losing. So that is my primary focus, eat more. I weigh daily so I will know if I need to stop that approach.

And food rules do apply to us. If you eat a lot of crap, you will gain weight. If you eat a lot of sugary products, you will gain weight. If you eat a lot of processed food, you will gain weight. If you eat more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. If you eat a lot of low cal veggies, no matter how hard you try, you will not gain weight. Calories in, calories out still apply to us. The reason protein is recommended, particularly during the weight loss stage is #1, we do malabsorb and protein is more difficult for the body to process and so a lot goes out in waste, we eat more protein to compensate for what we can't use. #2, we need protein so that we don't lose muscle which is why you should also exercise and weight train. So if I'm getting adequate protein (more than is actually recommended, btw) and I'm exercising and doing strength training which are necessary for muscle retention, I think I can eat veggies and complex carbs too.

At my nutritionist's recommendation, I don't drink when I eat (unless I forget which is about once in a blue moon), I get plenty of protein, I eat healthy, whole foods most of the time, I read ingredient lists and avoid processed food and I exercise and work hard. I stay on top of any and all medical conditions that might slow me down and I take good care of myself. Do I follow all the rules perfectly, no I don't and anyone that says they do is either not present in life or they are lying. Do I follow them as well as I can, yes. Do I do extensive research into diet, exercise, bariatric surgery and it's requirements to be successful and all things weight loss? Yes, I do. Why do I research? Because knowledge is power and success. The more I know, the more I know what to do.

I'm sorry if this post seems negative to you but yours really rubbed me the wrong way. You took what I said and turned it into something else. I said very clearly that I make sure I get enough protein and I do. But I still do and will continue to eat a bite of this and a bite of that when I eat because that is how I enjoy eating. And if I'm honest, I eat my protein last because, as I did when I was a child, I save the best for last.

posterity. and because somewhere in this thread the OP mentioned that truth provided helpfully or in a helpful manner or some such would be considered by her. I strongly suggest that truth, real and verifiable should be considered regardless. Including and especially the documented experiences of WLS post ops more than 18 months out. Example: I have my experiences. I also happen to have my weekly weigh in logs back to 2012. The two agree. That is called truth.

"posterity. and because somewhere in this thread the OP mentioned that truth provided helpfully or in a helpful manner or some such would be considered by her. I strongly suggest that truth, real and verifiable should be considered regardless. Including and especially the documented experiences of WLS post ops more than 18 months out. Example: I have my experiences. I also happen to have my weekly weigh in logs back to 2012. The two agree. That is called truth."

Not even sure what you said but I will respond by what I think you said."

So you say I'm lying? I have my weigh in logs since surgery too. I'm analytical and OCD, yes I logged everything. In excell documents back up in Word, my phone and tracking on MFP.

Partlypollyanna
on 3/11/19 11:57 am
RNY on 02/14/18

You are completely missing Amy's point and creating some kind of personal attack to boot!

She's saying you should consider the information you receive, regardless of your self assessment of that person's "helpful intent." Being further slog in the process, she's pointing out that Experience, facts and data can come from anyone and it can be useful regardless of your perception of "intent".

This is the second time you have responded rudely on this thread alone, to people that are trying to help/be encouraging/give a thoughtful response.

HW: 306 SW: 282 CW:144.8 GW: 145 (reached 2/6/19), next goal - 130

Jen

Amy R.
on 3/11/19 2:17 pm
On March 11, 2019 at 6:26 PM Pacific Time, kairosgrammy wrote:
On March 9, 2019 at 8:41 PM Pacific Time, Amy R. wrote:

On March 7, 2019 at 7:44 PM Pacific Time, kairosgrammy wrote: On March 7, 2019 at 6:03 PM Pacific Time, Sparklekitty, Science-Loving Derby Hag wrote:

I see your paragraph about "real food." I think this is pretty contrary to a lot of advice from surgeons and veterans. Veggies are great, but NOT what your body needs when losing weight. If it was a smart idea to eat veggies first, doctors would recommend it all around. I'm a bit concerned that you're ignoring advice and doing whatever you want-- at least, that's how your post reads.

Veggies DO fill you up. It's not a lasting satiety, like protein, but even when "compacted in your pouch" they will take up space that would be much better-served by protein.

Regarding the first question, many veterans DO eat a single food and call it good. My surgeon's maintenance advice is still "protein first, then a bite or two of veggie if you have room." Even in maintenance!

"Real foods" and a "balanced diet" are great common-sense concepts for people who've never been MO or SMO, but a lot of the rules don't apply to us.

I get around 130 grams of protein a day and I'm not trying to lose. I am actually in maintenance and I did discussed this with my nutritionist when I went in to talk to her about maintenance. I like success so I do tend to discuss before I do. Yes, veggies do fill you up but it sure takes a lot more of them and again, I'm hesitant to rely solely on vitamin supplementation to get what I need nutritionally, that's not being contrary, it's just good sense. Actually, my nutritionist told me I'm the poster child for this surgery. I am very aware that my actions can make being a poster child for the surgery into being the poster child of how not to eat. I live in fear of regain and I will not knowingly jeopardize my weight loss. Right now, my struggle is not eating enough and still losing. So that is my primary focus, eat more. I weigh daily so I will know if I need to stop that approach.

And food rules do apply to us. If you eat a lot of crap, you will gain weight. If you eat a lot of sugary products, you will gain weight. If you eat a lot of processed food, you will gain weight. If you eat more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. If you eat a lot of low cal veggies, no matter how hard you try, you will not gain weight. Calories in, calories out still apply to us. The reason protein is recommended, particularly during the weight loss stage is #1, we do malabsorb and protein is more difficult for the body to process and so a lot goes out in waste, we eat more protein to compensate for what we can't use. #2, we need protein so that we don't lose muscle which is why you should also exercise and weight train. So if I'm getting adequate protein (more than is actually recommended, btw) and I'm exercising and doing strength training which are necessary for muscle retention, I think I can eat veggies and complex carbs too.

At my nutritionist's recommendation, I don't drink when I eat (unless I forget which is about once in a blue moon), I get plenty of protein, I eat healthy, whole foods most of the time, I read ingredient lists and avoid processed food and I exercise and work hard. I stay on top of any and all medical conditions that might slow me down and I take good care of myself. Do I follow all the rules perfectly, no I don't and anyone that says they do is either not present in life or they are lying. Do I follow them as well as I can, yes. Do I do extensive research into diet, exercise, bariatric surgery and it's requirements to be successful and all things weight loss? Yes, I do. Why do I research? Because knowledge is power and success. The more I know, the more I know what to do.

I'm sorry if this post seems negative to you but yours really rubbed me the wrong way. You took what I said and turned it into something else. I said very clearly that I make sure I get enough protein and I do. But I still do and will continue to eat a bite of this and a bite of that when I eat because that is how I enjoy eating. And if I'm honest, I eat my protein last because, as I did when I was a child, I save the best for last.

posterity. and because somewhere in this thread the OP mentioned that truth provided helpfully or in a helpful manner or some such would be considered by her. I strongly suggest that truth, real and verifiable should be considered regardless. Including and especially the documented experiences of WLS post ops more than 18 months out. Example: I have my experiences. I also happen to have my weekly weigh in logs back to 2012. The two agree. That is called truth.

"posterity. and because somewhere in this thread the OP mentioned that truth provided helpfully or in a helpful manner or some such would be considered by her. I strongly suggest that truth, real and verifiable should be considered regardless. Including and especially the documented experiences of WLS post ops more than 18 months out. Example: I have my experiences. I also happen to have my weekly weigh in logs back to 2012. The two agree. That is called truth."

Not even sure what you said but I will respond by what I think you said."

So you say I'm lying? I have my weigh in logs since surgery too. I'm analytical and OCD, yes I logged everything. In excell documents back up in Word, my phone and tracking on MFP.

I'm not saying your lying or even implying it. Re-read my response. I am cautioning that experiences of further out post ops along with facts supporting those experience are truths. Even when not provided "helpfully" it would behoove others to consider them.

(deactivated member)
on 3/12/19 3:08 am
RNY on 10/09/18
(deactivated member)
on 3/12/19 3:15 am
RNY on 10/09/18
(deactivated member)
on 3/12/19 3:18 am
RNY on 10/09/18

I agree with kairosgrammy. Nutrition from natural sources makes sound & healthy sense. I'm a newbie, 5mo out, but I see what great success you are having and have to think that different things work for different people. I hope to have your your problem when I hit goal/maintenance. The main thing I see is that the surgery not only helped you get to goal weight but helped train you to eat better than before, for life. THAT is what scares me, when the help from the surgery "wears off," that I have retrained myself to eat better forever. Congrats on your success.

H.A.L.A B.
on 3/7/19 10:54 am

I often have a very simple meal. Even close to 11 years post op, i try to eat proteins first. My portions are still limited, and if I eat other foods first - i may not have a space for them.

When I have a big ouch day, i eat more veggies. Like yesterday and today. I really wanted a green salad. I put chicken on top, and ate the chicken first and then slowly ate the rest of the salad. Not eating a lot of starches, my allergies to dairy, soy and intolerance to grains, it is really often a hard time to get enough proteins and fat in me.

One of my meals yesterday was thinly sliced polish style sausage with mustard. I needed more proteins.

Hala. RNY 5/14/2008; Happy At Goal =HAG

"I can eat or do anything I want to - as long as I am willing to deal with the consequences"

"Failure is not falling down, It is not getting up once you fell... So pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again...."

kairosgrammy
on 3/7/19 1:24 pm
RNY on 10/17/17
On March 7, 2019 at 6:54 PM Pacific Time, H.A.L.A B. wrote:

I often have a very simple meal. Even close to 11 years post op, i try to eat proteins first. My portions are still limited, and if I eat other foods first - i may not have a space for them.

When I have a big ouch day, i eat more veggies. Like yesterday and today. I really wanted a green salad. I put chicken on top, and ate the chicken first and then slowly ate the rest of the salad. Not eating a lot of starches, my allergies to dairy, soy and intolerance to grains, it is really often a hard time to get enough proteins and fat in me.

One of my meals yesterday was thinly sliced polish style sausage with mustard. I needed more proteins.

Wow and I thought a dairy intolerance was a bit inconvenient. I feel for you. But I must say, it's good to know that restriction will last. I'm pretty good at knowing how much I can eat. Right now about 5 or 6 oz unless there's salad involved. I can really eat that pretty well. My constipation is so, so bad (usually attributes for occassional weight gains, ugh) I do work very hard at getting fiber in. I had IBS pre-surgery and still do.

Surgeon: Dr. David Carroll Surgery Date: 3/17/2017 Hospital: Merritt Health River Oaks Hospital

Height: 5'2" HW: 331 lbs SW: 279 lbs GW: 130 (originally, I changed to 140) CW: 130 to 135 ish

Biggest Goal: To Be Healthy in everything I do!!! To make healthy choices always!!! To just embrace HEALTH each and every day for the rest of my Life!!!

H.A.L.A B.
on 3/7/19 1:58 pm

I have IBS-C and I try to avoid a lot of fiber. In some cases fiber can create more constipation than it helps it. There was even studies about that. If I eat protein style type diet, I can feel a great restriction. It lasts because I chose the diet.

"Stopping or reducing dietary fiber intake reduces constipation and its associated symptoms"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3435786/

As for the restrictions - when I start eating more veggies, specially starches, my pouch can lose sensitivities, and I need to eat much more before I feel full. That often also means that I ate too much. Unfortunately with more mushy food, like slider food it can easily pass the stoma and start filling and stretching the small intestine part right after the stoma. I had some whole digestive track swallowing study that shows that it is true for me after so many years. When I eat proteins first - they stop by the stoma and food slowly start entering that part. But veggies and starches? they pass the stoma and I have to eat much more to feel full. Unfortunately on the normal days that would make me hungry more often.

I have some friends *****gain a lot of weight and have problem losing regain. They eat more veggies and starches. then proteins. Often they can only eat 2-3 oz of proteins. per meal.

Hala. RNY 5/14/2008; Happy At Goal =HAG

"I can eat or do anything I want to - as long as I am willing to deal with the consequences"

"Failure is not falling down, It is not getting up once you fell... So pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again...."

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