cabin111’s Posts
Disregard if you have seen this before. But for you new people who hit a stall for several weeks and feel frustrated that the scale is not moving the copy and paste below may help you...Brian
Below is a copy and paste from DX...very knowledgeable man. It might help.
Still staying on-track calorie-wise? And the scale shows you stopping? Or Even Gaining?!?!? ----------------------------Re-Post Unsolicited advice/info... -------------------------------------- Pull back from your 'daily' charting, and look at a weekly or even monthly. There are up and down spikes each day, But if you 'graph' the highest to the lowest, I'd bet there is still A downward slope over the course of the month. There's an 8 to 10lb. volume of "wiggle room" due to water alone. And it comes into play a lot. This has to do with our bodies using glycogen for short term energy storage. Glycogen is not very soluble, But it is stored in our muscles for quick energy - One pound of glycogen requires 4 lbs of water to keep it soluble, And the average glycogen storage capacity is about 2 lbs. So, when you are not getting in enough food, (Like when you drop down to your calorie intake) Your body turns first to stored glycogen, Which is easy to break down for energy. And when you use up 2 lbs of glycogen, You also lose 8 lbs of water that was used to store it Voila -- the "easy" 10 lbs that most people lose in the first week of any diet. As you stay in caloric deficit, however, Your body starts to 'realize' that this is not a short term problem. You start mobilizing fat from your adipose tissue And burning fat for energy. But your body also 'realizes'---- (by way of your liver releasing hormones signaling low Cal intake) ---That fat can't be used for short bursts of energy - Like, to outrun a saber-tooth tiger. So, it starts converting some of the fat into glycogen, And rebuilding the glycogen stores. And as it puts back the 2 lbs of glycogen into the muscle, 8 lbs of water has to be stored with it to keep it soluble. So, even though you might still be LOSING energy content to your body, (Thus showing negative Calorie load overall) Your weight will not go down or you might even GAIN for a while As you retain water to dissolve the glycogen that is being reformed and stored. Yes? The whole 'weight-loss' process is not a straight "Slide" down the scale. More like "Stair-Steps," (Down then forward, then down, then forward, etc... As your body cycles fat out of "deep storage" and through the Liver Into the muscles as Glycogen. The muscles and Liver can hold about a 3 weeks supply. This is why many people find that their "Stall" or "Plateau" Breaks when adding a bit of exercise And upping their water intake, or in the case of an "extreme exerciser," The total Calorie or Protein Intake, To signal the liver to let go of more Glycogen. Fear not, many people who are now enjoying life at a normal BMI Once had a few weeks or so of thinking- "...my weight loss has been awfully slow, has it stopped..."? Hope this helps some. You are doing Great! Keep it Up! Best Wishes- Dx
The below was written by DX. I have lost contact with him, he use to be on the Men's Forum. He was/is a college professor. After RNY he ended up in the hospital for about 6 months. So stuck there, he read everything he could about RNY (including dumping). Much of this stuff still applies for today. So here is an old, but I believe good post on dumping.
The below is written by DX...As many of you oldtimers know he was a very wise man...you can see by his post. He doesn't come on these boards much anymore, but for me, as a new post op, his posts were priceless. I've often thought he should make a CD of his posts and sell them. He has hundreds of posts like these...Brian
DUMPING SYNDROME DEFINED,
EXPLAINED,
AND AVOIDABLE!
Ok arkman asked for a description
Of Dumping and here goes-
It's a combo of What I've been told,
What I've experienced and
Some of the Med-Speak Crap
and some from handouts from my Doc. At Support group.
(Remember, If you opt for DS or the Band
No dumping "per sea," But, often
Some lactose intolerance and minor dumping
Even with the DS.)
The weight loss that is achieved through the RNY
Appears to be greatly dependent
On the removal of the Pyloric Valve, (the "sphincter" of the stomach)
Leaving the individual with a small stoma
(see "Foamies" in another thread.) As the only regulator
Of food movement into the small intestine.
This results in the phenomena called "Dumping Syndrome."
It can cause an individual to feel sick or even faint.
And by "sick," I mean anything from -
"I feel a little icky..." to "Please God, Let Me Die!!!"
Although many think the name would come from
"Taking a Dump" just with the Volume turned WAY UP!
The Slang term actually comes from the way food is "dumped"
Into the duodenum or the jejunum moments after eating,
Rather than being released gradually in small amounts
By the Pyloric Valve from the stomach into the small bowel.
This Rapid gastric emptying, or dumping syndrome,
Happens when the lower end of the small intestine (jejunum)
Fills too quickly with undigested food from the stomach.
Now this is the part
That leads to so much confusion-
There is -
"Early Dumping"
And "Late Stage Dumping"
They are rather different.
And caused by different things.
"Early" dumping begins during
Or right after a meal.
Symptoms of early dumping may include -
Nausea, Vomiting, (resulting from that nausea)
Bloating, (Fast Gas Production)
And Diarrhea, (ranging from mild to Frightening)
And shortness of breath.
It is caused by -
"the high osmolarity of simple carbohydrates in the bowel."
*Brain running in back room to look for Biology Text Book*
Remember "Osmosis"?
That Permeable Membrane stuff?
Osmolarity is the "Come Hither" quality of osmosis.
Things with High Osmolarity have a lot of molecules and
"Suck" water To themselves.
The various types of sugar all have small molecules,
So that a gram of (for example) sucrose has MANY
More molecules than a gram of protein,
Creating a higher concentration
From simple sugars than from other foods.
They "Suck" More Water.
Still follow?
This matters because, inside the body,
Fluid shifts will generally go Toward
The higher concentration of molecules.
So, a bite of milk chocolate (lots of sugar),
When it gets to the Roux limb it will quickly "suck"
A lot of fluid into the bowel.
This rapid filling of the small bowel causes it to be stretched
(Which causes cramping pain).
With fluid from all throughout your body,
Rushing to "The Party in your intestines,"
Blood pressure can drop, you can feel suddenly
In the full blown effects of dehydration, etc...
I feel warm all over very quickly
Like I've had a Big Double shot of Brandy.
Flush face and cheeks and hot inside.
This also "Can Cause"
The activation of hormonal (depending on the person)
And nerve responses
That cause the heart to race (palpitations)
And "Can Cause"
The individual to become clammy and sweaty.
Vomiting or diarrhea may follow
(Diarrhea is most common)
As the intestine tries to
Quickly rid itself of this "irritant. "
The same sort of reaction
That you would have to Food Poisoning!
"Everybody OUT!!"
You typically have between 5 and 15
Minutes before It hits.
Later than that, could just be plain Ole Runs.
This Diarrhea "Can" Range from-
"Wow, I've really got to Go!"
To-
Rip the porcelain off the Bowl,
Explosive, "This is like 'From the Exorcist' Crapping!!!"
That best describes Mine.
Well, actually coupled with Late as well.
Some people have both types to a degree.
I'm lucky that way....
"Late Stage Dumping"
Happens 1 to 3 hours After eating.
Symptoms of late dumping include weakness,
Sweating, and dizziness.
Late dumping has to do with the blood sugar level.
The small bowel is very effective in absorbing sugar,
So that the rapid absorption of a relatively small
Amount of sugar can cause the glucose level in the blood
To "spike" upward.
The pancreas responds to this glucose challenge
By "cranking up" its output of insulin.
Unfortunately, the sugar that started the whole cycle
Was such a small amount that it does not sustain
The increase in blood glucose,
Which tends to fall back down at about the time
The insulin surge really gets going.
Yes?
So you feel like
Someone has given you an unnecessary
Shot of insulin.
It's basically a bout of hypoglycemia (low blood sugar),
Which causes you to feel weak,
Super Sleepy, and completely fatigued.
Late Dumping has another Evil in its arsenal.
It is a way for gastric bypass patients
To Fall into a vicious cycle of eating.
If the patient takes in sugar
Or a food that is closely related to sugar
(simple carbohydrates like rice, pasta, potatoes)
They will experience a small degree of Hypoglycemia
In the hour or two after eating.
The hypoglycemia stimulates appetite,
You eat more, cycle repeats,.....
And it's easy to see where that is going....
Yes?
Some, who claim "bingeing" with Carbs
Have actually been riding like a surfer
On a wave of hypoglycemia.
That requires some bravery and stupidity
In just the right balance, but does happen.
That "Emotional Eating," Thing is a doozey!
The reason that sugar does not cause dumping
In non-operated people is that the stomach,
Pancreas, and liver work together to prepare nutrients
(Or sugar) before they reach the small intestine for absorption.
The stomach serves as a reservoir that releases food
Downstream only at a controlled rate, through the Pyloric Valve.
This avoids the sudden large influxes of sugar
That can occur after a Roux En Y.
The released food is also mixed with stomach acid,
Bile, and pancreatic juice to control the chemical makeup
Of the stuff that goes downstream
And avoid all of these effects above.
For Late Dumping -
Lying down immediately after eating reduces the symptoms
Because gravity isn't draining the stuff straight into
Your intestines. Yes?
It may give you just a serious nap.
Now,
One more Intricacy that makes it so
Difficult to pin down -
"Dumping Syndrome-Do I have it or Not?"
Is-
Lactose Intolerance.
The symptoms of this are typically
Gas, medium to extreme,
Diarrhea, medium to extreme,
And most all of the symptoms of dumping syndrome
Except the Blood Sugar drop
Seen in Late Dumping.
Since Bypassing some of the small intestine,
(That portion where typically the milk sugar Lactose
Would be processed,)
The milk sugars may also create small
Amounts of Dumping syndrome on their own.
Many Bypass patients who do not have the big reaction to
Sugar in the form of Dumping Syndrome will
Experience the typical Lactose intolerance symptoms
That some Non- Bypass people have.
The Lactose in milk, has been eaten or processed
By bacteria mostly in Yogurts, and Cheeses
Which is why those don't cause problems.
Some will also have Dumping-Like Symptoms resulting from
Foods with high fat content.
More like severe indigestion with diarrhea rather
Than full out Dumping.
This is due to not mixing with bile
Soon enough in the system.
This is one of the reasons
For the 38% mal-absorption of Fats in RNY people
And the 81% mal-absorption of Fats in DS people.
In Both, the extra unabsorbed fats tend to cause them to
Poop like a goose!
So for both, particularly
The RNY folks who still get calories from a lot of that fat,
Best To keep those fat percentages down to keep
The Poo Normal. Yes?
Sugar Alcohol is another confusion in the mix...
Sugar Alcohols have a Laxative effect and can cause cramping
and bloating for anyone, WlS post-o*****n-Op,
even when eaten in moderate doses.
This cramping / diarrhea effect of one bite too much of
a Sugar Alcohol would happen even without the surgery,
But since many Post-Ops are seeking out more SF alternatives,
They end up being the folks who "test out" more Sugar-Alcohols.
(so not Dumping, just the Laxative property of Sugar Alcohol...)
Many, (me included)
Consider dumping syndrome
To be a beneficial effect of gastric bypass.
It provides quick and reliable negative feedback
For intake of the "wrong" foods.
In practice, most patients DO NOT
Experience full-blown dumping
More than once or twice.
Most simply say that they have
"Lost their Taste" for sweets.
Some, have Dumping Syndrome early on,
But as their system adapts to the new
"Goings On," they lose it,
And their Digestive system compensates.
Others, like me, have it for life.
There are some people who have had no reaction
To sugars and then One Day- POW!
Full Blown Dump!
Something about the food they ate,
And the speed that in went into
The intestines, set them off.
This happens sometimes
Due to drinking with a high osmolarity food.
Speed into the Intestine
Plus
Molecular Density Of the thing entering,
Equals "Degree of Dumping Syndrome Effect."
Now,
All that sounds bad.
But, It can all be avoided-
JUST DON'T EAT SWEETS!
AND HIGH CARB/SWEET MIX FOODS!
Or-
The General Guidelines
For avoiding/reducing Dumping Syndrome
(From a handout at my support group
From a Nutritionist who works with Bypass folk.)
1.) Avoid taking liquids with meals.
Liquids should be taken 30 minutes before or after meals
And limited to ½ to 1 cup servings.
Carbonated beverages are not recommended
In the initial stages of the diet to prevent excess gas formation.
2.) Small, frequent feeding should be provided.
The number of feedings depends on the patient's tolerance
To specific portions of food.
Foods should be eaten slowly and chewed well.
Avoid those known to cause individual problems.
3.) The diet should be low in simple carbohydrates,
High in complex carbohydrates and protein,
And moderate in fat
With the purpose of achieving and maintaining
The optimal weight and nutritional status of the patient.
4.) All food and drink should be moderate in temperature.
Some patients tolerate warm water
Better than iced or cold water.
5.) Avoid foods that are natural laxatives,
Such as figs, prunes, and licorice.
6.) If "dumping" is a problem,
It may be helpful to lie down
20 to 30 minutes after meals and even up to an hour
To retard transit to the small bowel.
7.) Slowly introduce small amounts of milk into the diet
To determine tolerance.
If milk products are tolerated,
They can play a key role
In providing an easily tolerated protein
And other nutrients such as calcium and vitamin D.
Trick/Tip from my Doc- (useful for Diabetics as well)
Pectin,
A dietary fiber found in fruits and vegetables,
May be helpful for treating dumping syndrome
And even simple diarrhea.
Pectin delays gastric emptying,
Slows carbohydrate absorption,
And reduces the glycemic response.
1 tsp pectin powder 3 times daily may be effective.
(It's that "Sure-Jell" stuff for making
Home-made Jelly. Great food additive)
So,
That's the -
"Everything and then some I know about Dumping."
Best Wishes-
Dx
Just wondering...I had my surgery in 2006.
I've used some NSAIDs over the years...Yeah I know, no need to harp. I'm a big boy and know what I am facing.
If/when I die, I would like an autopsy of my remnant stomach...See how much damage occurred.
Please, only those who have had it done or know someone (personally...Not just these boards) who have had it done. Thanks
I had for 9 years in a row posted what I looked like on each surgery anniversary date. I wanted new people to see what I looked like over the years (good with the bad). OH lost more than half the pictures...
All my labs are good...Just tested last month. I do very strange patterns for getting my supplements in. In the morning I will take a multi with a calcium citrate-Bariatric Advantage. In the afternoon I will take my iron. Afternoon I will take another multi...Different kind to make sure if one doesn't work, the other will. Here comes the strange ones. I will nibble on B-Complex and B-12 pills throughout the day. I will also nibble on multi and irons throughout the day. I keep nuts, seeds, raisins, Cheerios, beef jerky, and rye crackers in my pockets. When I feel my blood sugar level dropping (or I get that not full feeling), I'll just pop something into my mouth. Just me...
I'm alive!!! Hi guys...It's been 3 years. I tried logging in for 3 years to no effect. Even tried to get a new account...OH wouldn't/couldn't make it happen. Had my daughter log me in finally.
Where to begin. Oct 9th 2006 was my surgery. My last weigh in was at 215. I had rotator cuff/bicep surgery in May. Slow recovery, but am doing well.
4 grand kids now...Lot's of fun. I do not know if I will be able to log it again. OH has been a bear in that area. Hope all is well. I'll post later if I can log in again. I'm 67...Trying to ride my bike, but pollution in CA makes it hard.
Later, Brian...Cabin111
Hi there. It's been 13 years as of yesterday for my RNY. I have known over the years what sits well with my pouch and what does not. For some reason the Impossible Whopper from Burger King will just sit there. It really doesn't move through my system very well. I don't get a "Mini Dump"...Heart racing or sweating. It's just there is something in that thing that doesn't work for me. Have any of you had this problem?? Don't know if it's been asked. Thanks, Brian
This story may interest you...Just came out a few days ago. Bloom starts about February 1 and ends in mid March...Depending on the weather that year. About 95% of the crop has to be cross pollinated. There is a new variety that is self pollinating, but not as tasty or in great demand. Brian
Just general concepts...No amounts. My HDL and LDL (and Lipid panels) have been good for many years...95% for my age group. For the good cholesterol (HDL) the only real thing that will help is exercise. Nothing else really can help...Except maybe hard physical work. Niacin (B-3) can help a little...But in large amounts it can cause flushing. My cardiologist recommended TwinLab Niacin. I just separate the pill and take small amounts during the day...To reduce the flushing.
For LDL small amounts of fruit (to keep me regular and to keep the blood sugar level up) is good. The rest is using more vegetables and less fatty meats. Go with more lean meats. For me (and only me) I use some protein shake, I like to have one that has both whey protein isolate and egg albumen. I make my own stews (lean steak, lentils, vegetables and spices) and eat Wendy's Chili for my fast food. I also eat plain nuts.
The last thing is to reduce my sugar and high fructose corn syrup levels. High fructose corn syrup is The Devil!! It is not my/your friend!! Also watching my breads and cereals...Going with more whole grains...Think rye crackers. Many people's downfalls are functions and parties (office and family)...Where much of the "JUNK" is served. Being mindful of that area can help. For candy I will eat 72% cocoa chocolate...Just small amounts. I've dropped down to 1-2 oz of coffee per day...A lot of sugar and sugar substitutes, but then again, small amounts. Good luck on your journey. Brian
Hi, I'm a former almond grower. I snack on them all the time...Have a few trees around the house. You have the tariffs issues with China and such a large crop, the prices may be a little lower this year. If this applies to you...Enjoy.
For some reason the pictures (12 years) get dropped on my computer (OH)...
I'll try again...
Way off the subject...Did you see that SpaceX (Vandenberg Air Force Base) launch the other night...Since you are on the Central Coast. Up here in Turlock it was amazing!!
Others may disagree with me, but I will tell you what the nutritionist and doctors said to us at support group years ago. You can go as low as 2% body fat (excluding excess skin) and still be healthy. This question comes up a lot on the Exercise and Fitness Forum. With the 2% you have enough of a reserve if you become sick (flu, bug, ect) to help fight off the issues. My goal was 190 (set by my surgeon). If I had used his partner, he would have allowed me to go to 180. A lot has to do with your body frame.
Since you are concerned with the bounce back you should talk to your nutritionist and surgeon (or PCP). So often when people hit their goal they want to live a little...Try the stuff they have been missing. Yet, it can become dangerous...Like the crack addict retrying the crack. I started going back to things like Pepsi, chips, candy...Regained about 45 pounds. Eyes wide open...Brian PS Muscle toning (exercise classes, sports) will keep you at the ideal weight and you don't have to think much about the weight side...
Yeah, it has been 12 years!! After the first few years you stop thinking about what has happened. Hopefully you (I) have put into place the things I need to stay healthy for quite awhile. I was 196 on my 12 year surgery (RNY). Here is what I look like today.
IMG_1156.jpg (217 KB)
I've gotten older...Turned 63. Surgery doesn't help with age!! Will live with the turkey neck...A badge of honor. Would I do it again?? In a heartbeat. I was dying when I had the surgery (congestive heart failure). The surgery gave me a new life. I cut out a lot of sugar and fried foods. I'll eat some, but I don't go hog wild. I got down to a low of 187. I then gained back up to about 235 over the years. Each year I will put a picture of what I look like near my surgery date (so new people can see what to expect). I do a lot of physical work. When I am not working I will exercise (bicycle or walking). Life is good...
You are correct...But they "look on" closely while they are being done many times!! Especially surgeons, they want to see if they have missed something they could have caught...
Don't want to be morbid...But I would want my surgeon to look closely at new issues that could arise. Most do...
Thanks Julie...This one is good. But it's over 10 years old. I'm sure much of it still applies today.
Hi...I would like to ask a few questions that some of you may be able to answer. I've studied the RNY for many years. I've gone to support groups (heard the bariatric surgeons talk and answer questions). I've been on OH for over 13 years...But I haven't been active for a while (out there living life). My weight and blind stomach are good.
I would like to know if anyone has had exploratory surgery on their blind stomach? Did they start with the stomach or other organs first? Was it arthroscopic or just the doctor's own vision? Have you had your blind stomach removed?? Do you personally know anyone who has had their blind stomach removed? How did they adjust? Anyone with stomach cancer issues? Anyone with an ulcer in their blind stomach?
Would just like to get a thread going about the blind stomach and problems you know personally you have faced or have seen people face. We all know what they say at the support meetings and orientation classes. Looking for first-hand knowledge.
Have you heard any bariatric surgeons talk about different autopsies they have performed on former patients...What they've seen? Anything interesting they've discovered?? Again, haven't been in the loop for many years and just would love to hear or see studies on the blind stomach...
Thanks, Brian
Tired...Walked about 4-5 miles today (hot in CA). OH took down my photo!! We deleted it on our phone and on our email...It shows how Costco covers their backside from lawsuits. My flip phone camera doesn't work well and my wife's Apple phone is full...Oh well.
I have heard over the years that WLS patients have a 30% higher chance (than the general population), to develop this problem. I've heard it from the support group nurse and from the surgeons...
There is a large crop this year. The rains did not effect the crop. The trade war with China may cause the price of almonds and walnuts to drop...We'll see.
Agree to disagree. I do see more obese people at Costco than at say a Walmart. Just look the next time you are there. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. No, I am not wishing to shame anyone. Just trying to keep my eyes wide open.
My mind goes to more and more fast food hamburgers having more and more sugar in their buns. More sugar in the ketchup. KFC puts sugar in their coleslaw!! And Costco offers a hotdog/polish dog with a free refill of Pepsi (or other drinks) for $1.50 Am I wrong...Does Costco want you to drink your fill of their soft drinks...And more so?? You would think they would have a cost control on the soft drink machine...Yes?? Is it costing them money...Or making them money in the long run?? I know we have choices what to eat and not. I get that. Just saying obesity makes companies money...There is a method behind what they do.
You guys are right...My thread should have read..."Does Costco contribute to the nations obesity Problem"...
Of what I see at my local Costco, it looks like there is a larger percent of obese people shopping at the store, than in the general population. This is what I view. Just like fast food places, Costco has designed their store to attract people who have an issue with weight gain. It is there. No, you do not have to consume the bad samples. Also you can make wise choices on the food court. I do a lot of physical work and exercise. I do burn my calories. My blood pressure, heart rate, cholesterol/lipid panel are all good. I do eat wisely, but I do enjoy my other foods also. Just me.
So if the thread had started with..."Does Costco contribute to the nations obesity Problem", what would your response be??
I was the same way. Later your taste buds will change big time. I noticed bitter taste much more (coffee/beer). I can really taste fat in meats...Really gross. One aside...I fell in love with sauerkraut over the years!! Before I could take it or leave it. Enjoy the wild ride...
