MONICA W.
I AM 39 AND HAVE BEEN OVERWEIGHT SINCE 8. I AM IN THE BEGINNING OF THE PROCESS TO HAVE SURGERY. I HAVE TALKED TO MY PCP, DONE INITIAL LAB WORK, AND GONE TO THE CLASS WITH THE NUTRITIONIST. SO THIS HURRY UP AND WAIT GAME CONTINUES ON.
June 29, 2004 - Okay as i have been reading through tons of member's experiences, i have realized that the more detail the better for me so i am here to provide a bit of detail of my own. may 10th i went in for my physical with my pcp and requested wls. He felt that i was a perfect candidate as my bmi was currently 62 and my blood pressure was slightly elevated (although he felt that it was due to all the fluid i had on my legs and feet). i have no other comobidities thank God. i do have chronic back pain but it is due to an injury from a car accident. anyhoo he said that kaiser did not do lap band style and that the surgery would be contracted to ucla. the first step was to see the dietician and then immediately get my lab work done. he is going to put the referral in the computer that day. he also gives me the paper work for my labs and says to do them as a walk-in the day after i see the dietician. a week later i get impatient wanting everything to happen now (my pcp did tell me it could take up to 18 months). i get more nervous when i get a call from kaiser saying that they have to cancel an appt i never made or knew about. i asked if she saw a referral to the dietician and she said no give it a few more days. i did and called back and was told it looked like i was scheduled for a class on June 21st. Well again i was concerned because my pcp told me that it was to be a one to one appt. the csr gave me the number so i could call directly to check and it was confirmed that it was a class for bariatric surgery. on june first i had to go back to my pcp and i showed him the letter and he said he had never heard of it as a class but maybe with the amount of referrals it had changed. this did turn out to be the case because of course i called back to check. but get this, the receptionist asked me to inform my doctor. kaiser is a trip. also on the june 1st visit i had my ekg done. since my class wasn't until 5pm i decided to do my labs that same morning which since the dietician needed them to fill out her report im glad i did. the class was a waste of time. all it was to do was write in answers on a form that the dietician is suppose to fill out with us one to one. so we put in our answers and she was going to recopy them. it will be two weeks at the end of the week and i will call my pcp to see if he has my labs and the dieticians reports yet. will keep you posted. thanks for reading this and God Bless.
July 1, 2004 - Called my pcp's office to see if the lab work and dietician's reports were back. He did have my lab work and everything was basically normal except my cholesterol is 212 (but good choles is high) and i was borderline anemic. the dietician's report is not in yet of course and i will give it another two weeks (a month total) before i start bugging my pcp to get it in. well knowing me i will probably call the dietician's office directly by the end of next week just to remind her about me. The journey continues. God bless
November 13, 2004 - Well as they say the thrill is gone. Kaiser sure knows how to take the wind out of your sails. What gets me most is that they do not have a standard procedure that everyone can follow and put you through the same processes. But what's worse is that if they change something then they want you to go back and inform your pcp. wow Anyway since my last post i have gotten no where fast. when i finally contacted the dietician about my report she had gone on vacation and i had to wait another two weeks for her to get back and then get attitude from her when i called to ask about it. she said she would send it that day. of course i followed up within a week to my pcp and he said he was sending the paperwork off. within 2 weeks he was calling to say he had forgotten one blood test and that i did have to do the psych eval after all.
once again i felt defeated but it changed quickly. i was able to get off in time the same day as the doctor called to go do the test. within a week they called to say they had a cancellation and i could come later that day for the psych eval. only what i didn't know was this was basically a councelor who was to determine if i was a good candidate and then i could schedule an appointment for the real psych eval. i saw her in august and after she determined i was a good candidate i was able to schedule an appointment for dr. parks for oct 6th. and the waiting game continued. i also found out that ucla requires everyone to have a psych eval and take classes. so i sign up for the "freedom from fat" class (idiotic name). but i don't want to have anymore delays when i get to ucla finally so i am jumping through all the hoops. oh and in early september a doctor told me the most recent patient she got through to ucla was schedule for a year away. wasn't she just a ray of sunshine. so now im playing the waiting game again. my paperwork was resubmitted two weeks ago. so i will start bugging the bariatric department next week. i will keep you posted. the journey continues. God bless
11/20/04 i called the bariatric department and of course they had no paper work for me. so on monday i called and left a message for my pcp. two days later i called and left another message. on friday he calls me and says your paperwork went our at the beginning of the week which of course is code for i didn't send it when i said i would so i ignored your call until i did. you know i love my doctor but that moved really irritated me. so next week i will start calling the bariatric department again. and the journey continues. God bless
november 23,04 Yeahhhhhhhh me after playing phone tag yesterday and earlier today, i finally got in touch with the guy from the bariatric department. He said i was appreoved yesterday and i would receive my letter within 2 weeks. and the jouney continues. God bless
December 4, 04 Okay so in the spirit of if it can go wrong it will go wrong this journey continues to plague me. Thanks much to the lovely person who answered me on the message board and good luck in your journey. anyhoo i was guided to the ucla website to download the questionnaire that i would have to send in with my paperwork. well of course i didn't have adobe reader down loaded on my computer that is needed to open that particular page and after many agonizing hours i still don't have it. I finally got smart and decided to print it at work and then of course promptly forgot it and my referral was in the mail when i got home. needless to say it is now the weekend and the questionnaire is still sitting on my desk. i swear im going to get it together. Oh and also i was referred to ucla santa monica even though i requested harbor city so i called to see if they refer there ever and of course the guy doesn't work on fridays so i will call again monday. and the journey continues. God bless
Dec 14, 04 Just a note of update. i got my questionnaire home and filled out and then the next morning i could not step down on my right foot. needless to say the doctor said that i had either gout or an infection in my foot and i could not use it for the rest of the week. my first thought was now i can't get my paperwork mailed off. well thank God for my best friend Barbette. she came the next morning and got the packet from me, copied it and mailed it off. so now im just waiting again. i am suppose to get a letter 3 weeks after they receive the paperwork. with the holidays to factor in im just hoping to maybe have something the first week of january or so. and the journey continues. God bless
Dec. 18, 2004
just a quick update. went out to the mail today and my letter was there waiting. i have a date with the surgeon for March 14, 2005. and the journey continues. God bless
January 5, 2005
Well of course my appointment letter for the surgeon arrived on my first day of vacation so it was two weeks before i could fax the information to UCLA medical. i did it earlier this week and then called to finish the preregistration and carolyn said she would call me back closer to my appt. and the journey continues. God bless
February 6, 2005
This has been a tough day. Today is my Ex's birthday and on top of that superbowl. We had the most amazing superbowls every year together even before we were a couple and I felt so blessed that he spent them with me and not the fellas. Anyhoo it was just nice to come here tonight and read stories and here about what a family this site can bring you. thanks to all for being there. I'll be 40 on the 18th and i can't wait. This new decade is going to be the best one yet. God bless
March 14, 2005
Yahoo!!! Went to UCLA today and met with two doctors. It was an unexpected surprise to the horror stories that i had heard. Both Dr. john and Dr. Gracia were really nice. In fact Dr. Gracia got over zealous and was trying to get my date scheduled today to avoid all the other steps. Didn't work though because i still have tests to do. But unlike the extremely long wait time that i had heard about, i was told May initially, but it will end up being June. They have 4 mandatory classes and Debbie was over booked for April so i have to do them in May and then have my date for June. I was so shocked that it would be that soon. Since i have already lost almost 40LBS he requested another 20 before surgery (piece of cake) no pun intended. So on the way home i stopped at trader joes and bought a couple of protein drinks to see how i liked them. I also have to start my high protein low carb eating and im a bit concerned about that because i was diagnosed with gout in december and im not suppose to have too much protein. go figure. I actually feel like this is really going to happen. thanks for being there. and the journey continues. God Bless
April 24, 2005
I was off this week for spring break and I can't tell you what an amazing week this was for me. I got to email and get to know so many great women from this site, and i will actually be meeting Denise in person on wednesday at the hospital. She is having her surgery on tuedsay. what a way to meet someone for the first time. But i pray for the success of her surgery. I took my last test on friday, echocardiogram, so i will have my pcp get the results next week and fax them to Debbie at UCLA. from what i understand once they have the required tests i can get a date Yahooo. I also had a ultra sound this week. I am becoming a medical mystery. I have been having pain near my right ovary since december. They couldn't find my ovary during the first ultra sound but thought maybe there was a fibroid there. So i had a second one on monday and just like before we did outer and inner ultra sounds and she said hopefully she got good pics for the radiologist to read but still said she only saw my left ovary. very strange. and the journey continues. God bless
*****I GOT A DATE *****
May 14, 2005 Okay in my haste to post on the message board i realized i never posted here. Mable from UCLA called me on thursday and................... I GOT A DATE I GOT A DATE did i mention I GOT A DATE. JUNE 14TH yes just 1 month from today. She had been such a witch to me the week before and was adament that even though i was told i would have june there was no way and i would get july looking at the current schedule. But God knows better then Mable. Of course she said i knew how much you wanted june so when i saw and opening i put you in. however at class that night i was one of at least 3 people she called and gave a date to that day. All i know is that God is amazing and in a month at this time i should be a loser. i am so grateful to everyone here who has shared themselves and helped me to be so educated. i hope that my story will provide a little of that for someone else coming along. and the journey continues God bless.
May 27 2005 - Okay in the scheme of this is just not going to have any smooth moments, today was a mess for me. I was suppose to have my pro-op appointment. The problem was i had discovered on the 23rd that i had gained more weight and was only down 3 of the 20lbs that the surgeon wanted gone. i had previouly loss almost 40 so now i was plateauing bad. well i put myself on liquids for the entire week and then for them to call that day and change the appt. well i freaked out to say the least. my poor mother. any way i went to my anesthesiologist appt and then to the surgeons to do a weight check and was down 14 of 20lbs. problem is that there is no way i can do another week of liquids and maintain this weight loss let alone lose the final 6. Well its in the good lords hands now. i will be mindful of what i consume this week and we will see what happens next friday. and the journey continues. God Bless
June 3, 2005 - WOOOO HOOOO I am officially set for surgery. I went to my appt today and to my surprise i had only put 1lb back on and the doctor asked if i was ready. Am i ever so as of June 14th I expect to officially be a loser. and the journey continues. God Bless
June 14, 2005 - Surgery Day. Okay here goes. I arrived at my scheduled 8am time, registered and paid the $270 for a private room that UCLA required for my mom to stay with me the first night. From there my parents and I went down to the pre-op waiting room and then finally into the recovery area to get hooked up to my iv, gowned and answer the same questions for the third time.(they have to ask, its the law) of course they were running late and i was so excited i couldn't take it. i met the anesthesiologist and some time after that i was wheeled into the operating room. Now i know i should remember more of this but i just don't. they had given me something to relax me and unfortunately any medicine like that knocks me out. So that all i knew until i woke up in recovery with the immediate thought of who let an 18-wheeler run across my mid section and what the hell have i done to myself. i went back to sleep and the next thing i remember was being in my room and seeing my parents. i basically slept after that, any time i opened my eyes i hit the happy button (morphine. some time later they got me up to walk, i did it with my eyes closed the entire time. the next day was much better, i rarely used the button, got up and walked 4 times, and was told i was doing so well i could go home a day early if i could get my liquids down. well i did and only had one issue. when they moved me from a private to a semi-private room i was no longer on a bariatric floor and so they brought me regular grape juice (27g sugar). i was not suppose to have anything with over 5g. so i had drank and ounce or two before i called the nurse who then informed me that she had sent for a bariatric tray for me, but had never came in and bothered to tell me. it wasn't until much later that i found out from the doctor that it wasn't a bariatric floor. i got to go home the next day. Since i have been home, i have not used any pain medication and only have discomfort from the constant gas with sipping liquids.
It has been almost too easy. i'm back to my normal routine. it took me a few days to get in the 64oz that the doctor required but not it is now (a week later) it is not problem and some. I get about 80g of protein in a day, work out 30-40 min a day, and rest. what a life. i go back to the doctor on the 27th for my first post op visit and i'm just starting to notice my tummy going down. i had put on the 13lbs i had lost for my pre-op. i was down a total of 47lbs then. the day i left the hospital i had incresed 13lbs, so i am very nervous about my first weigh in. my first goal is to lose 100 in 6 monthsor less. smile. but now im on the loser side and a new journey to continue. God bless.
June 27, 2005 - 26 lbs - Well i went to my first post-op appt and i have lost 26lbs. i can't believe it because i don't feel like i lost a pound. i figured i had lost something because im not as swollen as i was when i left the hospital but man o man. who would have thunk it. amazing. and the journey continues. God bless.
Starting Weight 418,
Day of Surgery 384
Current 358
Starting measurments
neck 18"
arm 19"
bust 60"
waist 56.75
hips 68
thigh 34.5
calf 21
July 24, 2005 - 33 lbs - here is my one month update better late then never. on july 14th i was down 31 lbs and threw myself a nice little pity party for only having lost 5lbs the second two weeks of my first month. but those fabulous people on the message board were great and i got over myself quickly and realized that it meant a pound a day who does that? I have really had the best journey. Im on soft foods now for month 2 and according to the dietician that means anything i could eat if i didn't have teeth (protein of course). i am suppose to have 110gm of protein a day so at this point i drink two isopures a day (80gm) and 3 - 3oz meals of some type of mashed up meat. i have had chicken, beef, tuna, pork and crab. everything has stayed down with no problems.
i had a bit of a glitch last weekend it felt like a bone was stuck in my throat. i went to emergency and the doctor who of course knew nothing aobut wls said it was acid reflux, which is not exactly possible after surgery so after giving me some mylanta with numbing medicine i was sent home. It went away after 24 hours.
Thursday i went to a wls get together at the yard house. this was my first experience eating at a restaurant. I had looked at the menu ahead of time and determined that i was going to have the crab cake appetizer figuring it would be soft enough to eat. It was an incredible experience. the company was excellent and i had a wonderful time. it was the eating that tripped me out. i ate 1 of 2 crabcakes that was about 2.5" in diameter. i have never been in a resaturant and eaten so little in my life. i didn't even realize it until the waiter asked to take my plate. but it was a great feeling. and the jouney continues. God Bless
Weight 418/384/351/???
1 Month Measurements
neck forgot to measure
arm 17.75 - 1.25
bust 57.5 - 2.5
waist 54.5 - 1.75
hips 68 - 1
thigh 33.5 - 1
calf 21.5 + .5
August 14, 2005 - 41lbs - month 2
Well I am now 2 months out i have lost 41lbs post op 75 total. I feel great but like most wish i had lost more then 10lbs month 2. I do know that my fat gms are too high and I'm not getting in enough water so I will keep track on fitday.com and make this my goals for the month. I am now on regualr food which is not as easy as i thought. It really sits in your stomach and i find i can't eat as much. But my doctor wants 40-60gms of protein in with food at this point so i get it down. I also drink 2 isopures a day to get in the rest of the 110gms i need per day. I have been to several cali board events and they are great. I will be going to vegas with the singles board Labor Day weekend I can wait and again in late September for the Girls weekend. Life is pretty good. I have a hard time with the attention but I am getting better and still going to counceling for it. I will be on vacation for 3 weeks so i know when i go back to work it will be tough but i can handle it. and the journey continues. God Bless.
2 month measurements
neck - 17.5
arm forgot to measure
bust - 57 - .5
waist - 54 - .5
hip - 64 -4
thigh - 33 - .5
calf - 20.75 - .75
August 22, 2005 - 48lbs
Okay well i have to say that i was a bit angry about my 10lb month 2 loss, i figured i could have done that on any diet. I had to take a look at things and remember that i'm still on a diet and there are rules. So my goal for the month was to journal all my food. I figured that my fat gms were higher then the 30 i was allowed. Also I wasn't getting in much water. That was evident in my intake to output ratio (enough said). So i did this and i am proud to say that 9 days into my new plan and im already down 7 lbs. Plus i realized that i'm only 2 lbs away from my first post op 50. I have no ide how that crept up on me but i am thrilled. I have a secret goal to have 100 gone in uunder 6mo. Hope it comes true. and the journey continues. God Bless.
August 26, 2005 - 50lbs
Well I did it when i went to nutrition class yesterday i weighed and woo hoo for me i made it to 50lbs down in 10 weeks. Im loving this and have no regrets what so ever. and the journey continues. God Bless
September 17, 2005 - 92lbs
Okay I am now 3 months out and down 92lbs total. I decided to stop seperating the pre and post lbs because it was a continual loss and it all counts. I don't know if i have ever mentioned it but i don't regret it for a minute. surgery is the absolute best thing i could have ever done for myself. i believe i started at a size 36 and/or 4-5x clothing. with everything being stretch its hard to tell for sure but i do know that i can now get into a size 32 bottoms and 30/32 tops probably some 26/28 tops as well. i don't focus to much on the weight loss except to set the next goal. so i hope to lose 100 by the time i go to the doctor on Oct 3, because that will be one continuous year losing wieght which is a first for me. and the journey continues. God Bless
October 3, 2005 - 94
Well it was 1 year ago today that i started on a healthier eating plan. I had weighed myself the day before to discover i had hit an all time high of 418lbs. Coincidentally today was my 3 month (actually 4) post op appt with my surgeon. I wanted to be down 100lbs but i will take the 94. I have never lost 94lbs before and would have never imagine i could have done that in a year. 60 of it is post op. I have gotten bit by the carb bug and i will be getting that back in check immediately. My next visit is January 5th and i have decided that i will probably not weigh again until them because i become a total slacker for some reason when i know the numbers. With the holidays coming i want to be in total control of my eating. and the journey continues. God Bless
December 15th - 112lbs Wow I didn't realize how long it had been since I updated. I am now 6 months out. What a time for the holidays to come along. Food has become a huge struggle lately. I am looking forward to a couple of weeks vacation to get myself right and back to basics. But it is still the best thing i could have done for myself. I have my next check up on January 5th and I hope to be down 120lbs by then. I am starting to really understand the how you can weigh more but be in a smaller size. I wear size 28/30 bottoms (24 stretch jeans) and 18/20 tops. That amazes me at 306 because the last time i could anything close to that size i was in the 220's. Well I hope all have a blessed holiday season and a happy new year. and the journey continues. God Bless
January 8, 2006 -118 Happy New Year. okay for a bit of an update. I had my 6 month post op visit with the surgeon on the 5th. things are going very well. im down a total of 118lbs. I am close to weighing under 300 for the first time in over 10 years. I actually weigh what it says on my drivers license. I wear 18/20 tops and 26/28 bottoms. I do experience pain from time to time because of the hanging skin on my legs and the lack of support that the fat provided. but im doing more toning and it is helping. I just want to take a moment to say thank you to everyone who has been supportive through my journey and who i have been able to pass on some words of encouragement i did get hit with major sugar cravigns during the month of December, but now i incorporate some carbs in and its much better. Well that's about it for now. and the journey continues. God bless.
February 19, 2006 - 127 Well I am not 8 months out and I am really trying to kick start some big losses for the next 4 months leading up to my 1 year anniversary. I did figure out this month that one of the things i was missing as far as my eating plan was enough water. so i now drink 80-96oz a day and it did get me some big weight loss numbers. This has been a great month though. my honey has been phenominally supportive. both our birthdays are in February. Mine was yesterday. The members of this site came from near and far and it was the most amazing party i have ever had. What a blessing this sight is. it is my rock at this point to help me to make good decisions when i may not want to and for that i need to say thank you. I am basically the same size but my size 28 bottoms are loose in the waist and hips. im still between an 18 - 22 on the top depending on how stretchy it is. So there you have it for this month. and the journey continues. God Bless
March 17, 2006 - 132 Okay leading up to month 9 has been rough. I seem to be one plateau after another. I stayed at 290 for about 3 weeks. It is amazing what you body goes through. After i upped the water i lost 8lbs in 1 week. then i caught a cold and didn't eat much for a couple of days and gained 4 lbs. Seems the body can go into starvation mode pretty quickly. then after i started to eat i lost 3 of the lbs but then hit this lovely plateau and there i have been for the rest of the month. so as you can see for this month i only lost 5lbs. I still keep the water up but i cam to the conclusion that i am not doing enough protein. So i have gone back to two isopures a day and at least 72oz of water and that seems to have gotten the scale moving. So i will stay on this until i need to change. I still exercise 5 days a week for an hour. I think i have lost more inches then pounds but i don't measure often and i never record it so i don't always remember what it was. Life is getting better by the day. I have never been so social going to all the OH functions which i use as my personal support group. My honey and I are getting stronger by the day. He never seems to have an issue with hanging skin, instead embracing and loving evry bit of me. I am truly blessed. Well I really want to be down 160lbs by my anniversary in June. That is my long term goal. my innediate goal is to lose another 2lbs and be a century club member. and the journey continues. God Bless
April 14, 2006 - 127 Okay well now I am at month 10 and feeling sucky. Not only have I not lost in the past month but i have gained. According to my surgeon I am in starvation mode. i eat about 1000 cal on a good day and i need to do 1200-1500 a day. So I am trying to figure out how to work more calories in. I think I am just going to relax a bit and let it happen. i will chart everything i eat but im not going to have a fit about it. I really want to be down 160lbs at my 1 year or really close to it. But this too shall pass. never in my life have i lost 127lbs so i have to acknowledge the gift that WLS has given me. In addition the great group here that is supportive and comforting beyond words. I am now a surgery angel to Kevin A with a couple of others. I am so excited about this. I hope i do him proud. and the journey continues. God Bless
June 25, 2006 - 127 ONE YEAR OUT Let me just say that I don't regret this for a moment. I have a life that I never would have seen coming a year ago. However having said that. I am a bit disappointed that I have not lost since 6 months out. This used to frustrate me a lot. Now I am just glad to be stable give or take 5lbs that I lose and gain over and over. For right now I have accepted it as something that I cannot change. For now. I am still around 290 so I know I am not hardly finished just a continueing work in progress. and the jouney continues. God Bless.
July 16, 2006 - 131 Okay I'm 13 months out now and having a bit of tummy trouble. I did start losing again. Not much but I am not in the 280'2 and have stayed there for a couple of weeks so i would like to think that the 290's are history. In the mean time I went to the nutritionist at Kaiser and she gave me a post op diet. I tweak if for me because there is not enough protein or veggies in it but it give me a good enough guideline to stay at around 1200 cal a day and get in 80-100gm of protein.
Okay to the tummy trouble. I had been having pain off and on for a few weeks. The morning of my surgiversary i awoke in some serious burning pain. My surgeons office said possible ulcer and to contact my PCP. I did and he decided to treat me for acute gastritis. He put me back on prilosec twice a day and Carafate liguid before each meal. I was feeling better for about 3 weeks and then about a week ago my tummy started to hurt after i ate and has yet to stop. Whenever I put anything in it including water it hurts. I had an endoscopy on thursday and all was clear so i had a cat scan yesterday and should get the results from that on wednesday. I hope they find something so that they can fix it. I'm so nervous about eating but i'm between a rock and a hard place. If i let my tummy get empty it hurts and if i eat it hurts. no rest for the weary. but this too shall pass. and the journey continues. God Bless.
August 14, 2006 - 136 Well I am still losing slowly but after 6 months of nothing I will take what I can get. Still dealing with tummy pain and after having a gall bladder ultra sound it seems i have stones so that puppy has got to go. There is no infection though so that is a plus. I personally don't think it is the cause of my pain but I will take it one step at a time.
Life is great though. I have a man that could not be more supportive and loving, great friends on and off the boards and a job that is my bliss. I have been hanging out this summer with my Oher's and their many great events including my angelette Kevin A's pre-op tour 'o6. He is doing this surgery thing up right and I am so proud of him. and the journey continues. God Bless.
Oct 14, 2006 -140 16 months out. first and foremost I am still losing which is always important untiil I reach my goal. I am still having gastritis attacks although the only consistant pain i have is when i first wake up. I continue to take prilosec and tums to help with the pain, but have gone back to eating meat and working my tool as I should. It was decided that there was no reason to remove my gall bladder as it is not infected or the source of my pain. So there you have it. I am currently wearing 14-20 tops and 22-26 bottoms. I did find a dress recently that some one had given me that was perfect for my holloween costume and saw it was a size 18 and figured I would have to come up with another plan. But i tried it on and it fit. I was much amazed. and the journey continues. God bless.
December 20 2006 - 148 18 months out. Well I have reached what they call the end of the honeymoon period. I don't believe in that though, I think that you will continue to lose as long as you use your tool as intended. I can finally notice my weight loss. It amazing how the eyes and mind plays tricks on you. I'm still big but I can definitely see the changes in my shape. I still struggle with the burning in my pouch and continue to take prilosec daily. My instances of having major gastric attacks are coming fewer and far between. I now weigh 270 down from 418 and wear a size 22-24 on the bottom and 18-20 on the top down from 36 and 4x's. I still don't like shopping but i do it on occasion so that everything I put on does not make me look like a clown. Well it's the holidays and i am determined to end them weighing less then i started them. and the journey continues. God Bless.
