Heme Iron and Calcium
Yes.
The mfr almost had to shake me til my head rolled off to get thru to me on this.
And taking with calcium? I told him it was like telling me I could select my own speed limit. Just wrong.
But, when he got done ROTF, he says, no C, ok with calcium.
Easier to ask him this than to drive him nuts with "are we there yet?"
The mfr almost had to shake me til my head rolled off to get thru to me on this.
And taking with calcium? I told him it was like telling me I could select my own speed limit. Just wrong.
But, when he got done ROTF, he says, no C, ok with calcium.
Easier to ask him this than to drive him nuts with "are we there yet?"
Michelle
RNY, distal, 10/5/94
P.S. My year + long absence has NOTHING to do with my WLS, or my type of WLS. See my profile.
Privacy Please
on 4/1/10 11:02 am
on 4/1/10 11:02 am
I'm not neeeeeaaaarly as knowledgable as Andrea, but I'll take a stab at this by sharing personal experience. I have only taken Proferrin since surgery because I didn't want to deal with the 2 hour iron 'window' and I definitely didn't want to deal with constipation from poorly absorbed iron. So I did it, just because it was more convenient for me. But it is pricey, and if budgeting for all your vites is a concern, you could definitely start with tender iron, see how your body tolerates it, and if it keeps your iron numbers up, then you're good to go. Without needing to spend the extra for Proferrin.
I'm going to say this --
I like the Proferrin for people who don't have the crappy iron problems that I have because you don't have to fight with it for soooo many things. You can take it with a decent sized calcium dose, with zinc, with copper, with tannns, with whole grains, with legumes, with eggs. There's not any weird "I can't take my iron with breakfast because I'm having toast, fried eggs, and coffee" or "I can't take my iron because I'm taking 2000mg of calcium in 500mg doses 4x a day, plus I have to take copper and zinc and those don't like calcium either so I'm getting up at 4am just to get all my pills in!" sort of deals. Proferrin likes all of these things so it makes the supplement math a whole lot easier. It's also harder to OD on if you have children -- which for many people, let's face it -- a non-issue. (Next up on this list, btw, is carbonyl. Which is why GOOD children's vites use carbonyl.)
But Proferrin isn't cheap. It's made by one place in the US and so they hold a monopoly. There's currently a shortage until the end of April so if you're like me and dependant on it? Right now I'm screwed. I mean I have a small amount sitting, but after it's gone, I'm out. And because that monopoly is there, the price is there as well. It runs $57 a bottle from Michelle or so.. and that's 90 pills. (I could buy from the manufacturer a *****eaper, but their shipping is horrendously slow.)
So in this case, knowing that carbonyl works for MOST people and that I'm simply a FREAK OF NATURE? I'd give carbonyl a shot first. Then, if you continue to fight with the carbonyl and it's having little effect and you're heading towards a needle, then I'd look to Proferrin THEN.
But if you don't mind the cost, possible shortage issues, and welcome the lack of supplement hell (cause, I gotta tell you, it makes life SOOO much easier now..) then go for it from the outset.
I like the Proferrin for people who don't have the crappy iron problems that I have because you don't have to fight with it for soooo many things. You can take it with a decent sized calcium dose, with zinc, with copper, with tannns, with whole grains, with legumes, with eggs. There's not any weird "I can't take my iron with breakfast because I'm having toast, fried eggs, and coffee" or "I can't take my iron because I'm taking 2000mg of calcium in 500mg doses 4x a day, plus I have to take copper and zinc and those don't like calcium either so I'm getting up at 4am just to get all my pills in!" sort of deals. Proferrin likes all of these things so it makes the supplement math a whole lot easier. It's also harder to OD on if you have children -- which for many people, let's face it -- a non-issue. (Next up on this list, btw, is carbonyl. Which is why GOOD children's vites use carbonyl.)
But Proferrin isn't cheap. It's made by one place in the US and so they hold a monopoly. There's currently a shortage until the end of April so if you're like me and dependant on it? Right now I'm screwed. I mean I have a small amount sitting, but after it's gone, I'm out. And because that monopoly is there, the price is there as well. It runs $57 a bottle from Michelle or so.. and that's 90 pills. (I could buy from the manufacturer a *****eaper, but their shipping is horrendously slow.)
So in this case, knowing that carbonyl works for MOST people and that I'm simply a FREAK OF NATURE? I'd give carbonyl a shot first. Then, if you continue to fight with the carbonyl and it's having little effect and you're heading towards a needle, then I'd look to Proferrin THEN.
But if you don't mind the cost, possible shortage issues, and welcome the lack of supplement hell (cause, I gotta tell you, it makes life SOOO much easier now..) then go for it from the outset.
Hi Andrea,
Thanks for this wonderful post. I too have been using proferrin as I was taking poly iron from vitalady and it caused GI problems. The proferrin seems to really be tolerated well. I must say though that I was never told that I did not have to worry about the 2 hour rule or that it could be taken with other vit's. I still took it with only my carbon and took it on an empty stomach. Knowing all that is enough to pay the money for it. You sound like you are an expert so I am wondering if you can tell me the difference between carbonyl iron and ferrous gluconate? My doctor wants me taking ferrous gluconate but I am nervous that he doesn't know what he is talking about when it comes to supplements. He also told me to take 2 a day and I feel like I should prolly be taking more but don't know.
I have recently been struggling with my iron stores and have been extremely tired so I really want to get this right. Any help you can give would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Lori
Thanks for this wonderful post. I too have been using proferrin as I was taking poly iron from vitalady and it caused GI problems. The proferrin seems to really be tolerated well. I must say though that I was never told that I did not have to worry about the 2 hour rule or that it could be taken with other vit's. I still took it with only my carbon and took it on an empty stomach. Knowing all that is enough to pay the money for it. You sound like you are an expert so I am wondering if you can tell me the difference between carbonyl iron and ferrous gluconate? My doctor wants me taking ferrous gluconate but I am nervous that he doesn't know what he is talking about when it comes to supplements. He also told me to take 2 a day and I feel like I should prolly be taking more but don't know.
I have recently been struggling with my iron stores and have been extremely tired so I really want to get this right. Any help you can give would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Lori
Ferrous gluconate is a ferric salt -- which is the same as ferrous sulfate or ferrous fumarate. It's considered one of the "nicer" ones. In the order of crappy, they go sulfate, fumarate, then gluconate.
When looking at a ferric salt, you see they have two numbers -- 325mg equivalent to 65mg. This is because they are a compound. Part of that is the salt portion -- the gluconate portion, and part is the actual elemental iron portion. The salt portion is what gives people GI issues. Gluconate is easier to take than others and is a bit better absorbed than the other salts in most people. But not generally as well as carbonyl.
Carbonyl, on the other hand, is straight-up elemental iron. It is not a compound -- that is why you don't see dual numbers on it. When it says 25mg, it is straight up 25mg of elemental iron. It doesn't bind people up or give the GI issues as often because it doesn't have the extra crap in it that causes the issues. Generally speaking, carbonyl is the most readily absorbed and will dissolve at a neutral pH.
Most docs don't know about carbonyl. Be glad he knows enough about the ferric salts to reccommend gluconate over sulfate -- too many still go that route. If it were me, I would suggest to him that you've read studies in which carbonyl iron has shown to maintain ferritin levels better, absorbs better is a pH neutral environment, is recommended by the Iron Disorders Institute, and does not have any gastric issues that many of the ferric salts have. If he's a good doc, he'll leave you alone after that.
As for how much to take -- it's really a crap shoot depending on your labs. I've seen some DSers do wonderfully with little iron. And I've seen some that fight tooth and nail like I do. I've seen some RNYers not have to fight at all. And I have to hate them slightly because of it. All I can say is watch your trends like a hawk.
When looking at a ferric salt, you see they have two numbers -- 325mg equivalent to 65mg. This is because they are a compound. Part of that is the salt portion -- the gluconate portion, and part is the actual elemental iron portion. The salt portion is what gives people GI issues. Gluconate is easier to take than others and is a bit better absorbed than the other salts in most people. But not generally as well as carbonyl.
Carbonyl, on the other hand, is straight-up elemental iron. It is not a compound -- that is why you don't see dual numbers on it. When it says 25mg, it is straight up 25mg of elemental iron. It doesn't bind people up or give the GI issues as often because it doesn't have the extra crap in it that causes the issues. Generally speaking, carbonyl is the most readily absorbed and will dissolve at a neutral pH.
Most docs don't know about carbonyl. Be glad he knows enough about the ferric salts to reccommend gluconate over sulfate -- too many still go that route. If it were me, I would suggest to him that you've read studies in which carbonyl iron has shown to maintain ferritin levels better, absorbs better is a pH neutral environment, is recommended by the Iron Disorders Institute, and does not have any gastric issues that many of the ferric salts have. If he's a good doc, he'll leave you alone after that.
As for how much to take -- it's really a crap shoot depending on your labs. I've seen some DSers do wonderfully with little iron. And I've seen some that fight tooth and nail like I do. I've seen some RNYers not have to fight at all. And I have to hate them slightly because of it. All I can say is watch your trends like a hawk.
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