S@#! P#$%! F$(#! JUMBO Stone....
Ms. Cal Culator
on 9/2/10 10:32 am - Tuvalu
on 9/2/10 10:32 am - Tuvalu
Kidney stones can be the result of malapsorption...not just the DS, but any fat malabsorption issues. This is to give you a heads-up since a few of us--but certainly not all--are having to deal with stones post-op.
While the several llittle stones that are "only" 0.3 cm aren't the big problem, the one stone that is 1.5 cm x 0.9 cm x 0.6 cm just MAY be. That is JINORMOUS. Not quite as big as a .380 round or a Makarov 9mm slug...but bullet-sized.
Okay...logic time.
~Lithotripsy treats stones that are already formed.
~UroCit-K and other potassium citrate things treat the environment such that the oxalates that are already in the urinary tract (via absorption into the bloodstream) are not as likely to bind with the calcium and make stones.
~Can we go back one more step? Can we do whatever is necessary to keep those oxalates from finding their way into the urinary system to begin with? In non-malabsorbers, the oxalates bind with the calcium and people poop them out. No loss; no report. But when people malabsorb calcium, the oxalates go to the intestines on their own and end up getting absorbed in the colon and then they go to the urinary tract to cause trouble.
That is apparently how we can end up with calcium stones when we don't absorb the calcium. (Which answers my hematologist's question of "How can something you don't have enough of be present in sufficient quantity to form stones and cause all this trouble?")
So, what to do?
~Well, one thing is to cut down on Vitamin C. (I didn't say I was going to cut it OUT...just reduce it. There is not a lot of wisdom on the topic either way, so I'm going to make sure I take no more than I need. once I figure out how much that is.)
Another is to take calcium throughout the day WITH meals containing oxalates. (Essentially, everything except breakfast.) Give the oxalate something to bind TO so it can find the LOWER part of the colon and get the hell out.
They suggest potassium citrate 4x/day...and keeping the urine pH between 6.5 and 7.0. They also suggest 4 ounces of lemon juice every day, diluted and sweetened to taste. Also, they suggest Vitamin B (but it doesn't say in what quantities) and there are mentions of magnesium and phosphates and other things I have yet to grasp. Oh, yeah...and reduce sodium intake.
Another thing is to, of course, reduce oxalate intake, but if we look at that alongside the other stuff I can't eat due to all my other conditions...I will live on...I dunno...nothing good. Nothing at all that's good.
While the several llittle stones that are "only" 0.3 cm aren't the big problem, the one stone that is 1.5 cm x 0.9 cm x 0.6 cm just MAY be. That is JINORMOUS. Not quite as big as a .380 round or a Makarov 9mm slug...but bullet-sized.
Okay...logic time.
~Lithotripsy treats stones that are already formed.
~UroCit-K and other potassium citrate things treat the environment such that the oxalates that are already in the urinary tract (via absorption into the bloodstream) are not as likely to bind with the calcium and make stones.
~Can we go back one more step? Can we do whatever is necessary to keep those oxalates from finding their way into the urinary system to begin with? In non-malabsorbers, the oxalates bind with the calcium and people poop them out. No loss; no report. But when people malabsorb calcium, the oxalates go to the intestines on their own and end up getting absorbed in the colon and then they go to the urinary tract to cause trouble.
That is apparently how we can end up with calcium stones when we don't absorb the calcium. (Which answers my hematologist's question of "How can something you don't have enough of be present in sufficient quantity to form stones and cause all this trouble?")
So, what to do?
~Well, one thing is to cut down on Vitamin C. (I didn't say I was going to cut it OUT...just reduce it. There is not a lot of wisdom on the topic either way, so I'm going to make sure I take no more than I need. once I figure out how much that is.)
Another is to take calcium throughout the day WITH meals containing oxalates. (Essentially, everything except breakfast.) Give the oxalate something to bind TO so it can find the LOWER part of the colon and get the hell out.
They suggest potassium citrate 4x/day...and keeping the urine pH between 6.5 and 7.0. They also suggest 4 ounces of lemon juice every day, diluted and sweetened to taste. Also, they suggest Vitamin B (but it doesn't say in what quantities) and there are mentions of magnesium and phosphates and other things I have yet to grasp. Oh, yeah...and reduce sodium intake.
Another thing is to, of course, reduce oxalate intake, but if we look at that alongside the other stuff I can't eat due to all my other conditions...I will live on...I dunno...nothing good. Nothing at all that's good.
That is sound advice for all who suffer stones! After my first and hopefully last stone (and I haven't even been switched yet), I began the lemon juice regimen and swear by it, even though I've not been as faithful lately. I started out taking a straight shot of juice, but quickly learned that this was not good for the teeth. Interestingly my urologist said that my stone was probably due to high amounts of protein, but she didn't test it b/c it was the first one I had ever had. I've been blessed thus far and haven't had another one since.
However, one thing that I have recently learned is that tea has a lot of oxalate in it and that could have also been the culprit because once I left the carbonated world I became an avid tea drinker. I have tried to balance this with drinking twice as much water a day as I do tea, but I really need to work back in the lemon juice.
However, one thing that I have recently learned is that tea has a lot of oxalate in it and that could have also been the culprit because once I left the carbonated world I became an avid tea drinker. I have tried to balance this with drinking twice as much water a day as I do tea, but I really need to work back in the lemon juice.
Highest Weight: 564 / Post Band Pre DS Weight: 508 / Surgey Date Weight: 449
Current Weight: 209 / Goal Weight: 150 (BMI of 25).
WOW! that is a HUGE one!!! Sorry you are going thru that !!!
I did read about this a few years ago, and because it runs in my family,,, I am one of the crazies in a resturant that gets the water and slices of lemon and makes her own tea!!!
Of course now I watch which sweetner I use,,, I can say it does work !!!
Best of luck!
Debi
I did read about this a few years ago, and because it runs in my family,,, I am one of the crazies in a resturant that gets the water and slices of lemon and makes her own tea!!!
Of course now I watch which sweetner I use,,, I can say it does work !!!
Best of luck!
Debi
Ms. Cal Culator
on 9/2/10 1:22 pm - Tuvalu
on 9/2/10 1:22 pm - Tuvalu
On September 2, 2010 at 7:12 PM Pacific Time, Renfairewench wrote:
OMG that is a HUGE stone! You poor woman! I'm surprised that they are not going to blast that thing into something smaller. Hope you feel better soon.I suspect they are. I'll probaby be having my third lithotripsy...and then, if all goes well, I'll be peeing sand for a while.
OWIE.
I think that there should be a shotgun that blows away all stones.
Amazing how critters a couple millimeters big should be HUGE and HORRIBLE. I get little bitty guys that I wouldn't recognize as stones if I hadn't had a "big one" last year that laid me out flat. Gadzookies. I take my calcium, magnesium, guzzle my fluids and pray daily to avoid that plague. But I still get 'em in miniature. I sat through a stone process last Easter at MIL's, guzzling water and beer and holding my gut and also holding civilized conversation while nobody except MIL had a clue what I was enduring. We worked out a signal where I would tell her it was time to invoke the ER and the panic button, and she kept the most amazing game face, bless her.
I think that there should be a shotgun that blows away all stones.
Amazing how critters a couple millimeters big should be HUGE and HORRIBLE. I get little bitty guys that I wouldn't recognize as stones if I hadn't had a "big one" last year that laid me out flat. Gadzookies. I take my calcium, magnesium, guzzle my fluids and pray daily to avoid that plague. But I still get 'em in miniature. I sat through a stone process last Easter at MIL's, guzzling water and beer and holding my gut and also holding civilized conversation while nobody except MIL had a clue what I was enduring. We worked out a signal where I would tell her it was time to invoke the ER and the panic button, and she kept the most amazing game face, bless her.
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