Bittersweet APPROVAL..... Any advice???

M. J
on 10/14/10 10:50 am - West Palm Beach, FL
 Yea ur wondering y its 'bittersweet'.... Well, my file was sent out first thing Tuesday morning, Wednesday evening I received a message from the nurse without any details but she was asking for me to call her back.... I was SOOOO anxious to know what she wanted but unfortunately I didn't reach her. But this morning (Thur) she called me back! Guess what???! I've been APPROVED!!! Yes, that fast!!!! Like 36 hours or less!!!!! Talk about progress!!! So we went ahead and scheduled a surgery date for October 27th, but I would have to go in the day before for my scope and another nutrition class afterward... Well after that convo she threw the BOMB on me! My insurance wont cover the DS!!!! But they will cover RNY.... OMG!!! R u serious??!!?? Thats the whole reason Im even going that far! It was such bittersweet news! I finally got an approval but not for what I want   But my plan is to try to appeal it.  I called Medicaid and they say I can appeal but the surgeons office will have to submit the appeal, not me, so Im hoping she will do it! When we spoke she told me she doesn't think I can appeal if its not a 'covered benefit' but thanx to my time and research on OH I know thats not true!!! I've heard of people having a direct exclusion for WLS and still got it after an appeal (or two.... Or three)! So Im gonna call the nurse tomoro and ask her if she will PLEASE submit an appeal and just SEE if they change their minds... I mean, its sounds crazy but, even tho I've got my mind set on the DS and researched and ate, slept n breathed DS, I want this so bad I would actually 'settle' for RNY if I have no other choice   BUT, if I have to do RNY instead of DS, I'd prefer to go to a surgeon in Orlando (Dr. Keith Kim) who does the lap procedure and is also better known n liked here on OH.....
Any advice???

beemerbeeper
on 10/14/10 11:07 am - AL
My advice is to find another surgeon to submit an appeal. I've not heard anything good about your surgeon.

Don't settle for an RNY. I just read some scientific literature today about why the RNY is even a worse choice for women of color than for white women. I'll try to find that for you for use in your appeal.



(deactivated member)
on 10/14/10 11:51 am - San Jose, CA

The DS is a better option for African-Americans, and probably other non-Caucasians who have metabolic issues in common, e.g., Hispanics and Native Americans: 

 

1: Obes Surg. 2008 Jan;18(1):39-42. Epub 2007 Dec 15.LinksThe impact of race on weight loss after Roux-en-Y gastric bypass surgery.

 

Harvin G, DeLegge M, Garrow DA.

Department of Medicine, Division of Gastroenterology and Hepatology, Digestive Disease Center, Medical University of South Carolina (MUSC), 96 Jonathon Lucas Street, CSB #210, P.O. Box 250 327, Charleston, SC, USA.

BACKGROUND: Gastric bypass surgery for morbid obesity has dramatically increased in volume over the past decade. Caucasian patients have been noted previously to lose more weight after bariatric surgery than African-Americans patients. Data regarding predictors of maintaining weight loss after surgery are minimal. We sought to determine predictors of long-term weight loss after bariatric surgery. METHODS: Retrospective analysis using a multivariate logistic regression model of all patients undergoing Roux-en-Y gastric bypass surgery at the Medical University of South Carolina from May 1993 to December 2004 for whom 2 years of follow-up data was available. Our dependent variable was the percentage of weight lost from baseline, dichotomized at +/-35%. Our primary independent variable was race, defined as Caucasian, African-American, or other. Relevant covariates were added to the model to control for their potential effects on outcome. RESULTS: One hundred eleven patients (17 male/94 female; 85% Caucasian, mean age 44 years (range 18-68 years). In our model, Caucasian subjects (adjusted odds ratio [OR] = 7.60, 95% confidence intervals [95%CI] = 1.83-31.5) and late post surgical complications (adjusted OR = 2.67, 95%CI = 1.05-6.80) significantly predicted weight loss at 2 years, after controlling for relevant confounders. Other covariates did not significantly impact the model. CONCLUSION: Race and late post surgical complications significantly impacted the percentage of weight loss at 2 years for patients undergoing Roux-en-Y gastric bypass surgery at our institution. Future research should be directed at determining potential genetic and/or social reasons for these differences.

1: Obes Surg. 2007 Apr;17(4):460-4.Links

Are African-Americans as successful as Caucasians after laparoscopic gastric bypass?

Madan AK, Whitfield JD, Fain JN, Beech BM, Ternovits CA, Menachery S, Tichansky DS.

Section of Minimally Invasive Surgery, Department of Surgery, University of Tennessee Health Science Center, 956 Court Ave., Room G210, Memphis, TN 38163, USA. amadan@...

BACKGROUND: Laparoscopic Roux-en-Y gastric bypass (LRYGBP) has been demonstrated to provide weight loss comparable to open gastric bypass. It has been suggested that African-Americans (AA) are not as successful as Caucasians (CA) after bariatric surgery. Our hypothesis was that AAs are just as successful as CA after LRYGBP in terms of weight loss and comorbidity improvement. METHODS: A retrospective chart review was performed on all AA and CA patients who underwent LRYGBP for a 6-month period. Success after LRYGBP [defined as (1) 25% loss of preoperative weight, (2) 50% excess weight loss (EWL), or (3) weight loss to within 50% ideal weight] was compared by ethnicity. RESULTS: 102 patients were included in this study. 97 patients (30 AA patients and 67 CA patients) had at least 1-year follow-up data available. Preoperative data did not differ between both groups. There was a statistically significant difference in %EWL between AA and CA (66% vs 74%; P<0.05). However, there was no ethnic difference in the percentage of patients with successful weight loss (as defined by any of the above 3 criteria). Furthermore, there was no statistical difference between the percentages of AA and CA patients who had improved or resolved diabetes and hypertension. CONCLUSIONS: LRYGBP offers good weight loss in all patients. While there may be greater %EWL in CA patients, no ethnic difference in successful weight loss exists. More importantly, co-morbidities improve or resolve equally between AA and CA patients. LRYGBP should be considered successful in AA patients.

1: Obesity (Silver Spring). 2007 Jun;15(6):1455-63. Links

Weight loss and health outcomes in African Americans and whites after gastric bypass surgery.

Anderson WA, Greene GW, Forse RA, Apovian CM, Istfan NW.

Section of Endocrinology, Diabetes and Nutrition, Boston Medical Center, Boston, MA 02118, USA.

OBJECTIVE: The objective was to describe differences in weight loss, dietary intake, and cardiovascular risk factors between white and African-American patients after gastric bypass (GBP). RESEARCH METHODS AND PROCEDURES: This was a retrospective database review of a sample of 84 adult patients (24 African-American and 60 white women and men) between the ages of 33 and 53 years. All subjects had GBP surgery in 2001 at the Bariatric Surgery Program at Boston Medical Center in Boston, MA, and were followed for one year postoperatively. Patients were excluded if weight data were missing at baseline, 3 months, or 1 year after GBP. A total of 9 African Americans and 41 whites provided data at all 3 time-points and were included in the study. Differences in weight loss, diet, and cardiovascular risk factors were analyzed. RESULTS: There were no differences in baseline characteristics between African Americans and whites. Mean weight loss for the entire sample was 36 +/- 9%, with a range of 8% to 54% relative to initial body weight. Whites lost more weight (39 +/- 8%) than African Americans (26 +/- 10%) (p < 0.05). Dietary parameters, as well as improvements in blood pressure and lipid profiles, were similar in the two racial groups. DISCUSSION: Differences in weight loss between severely obese African Americans and whites undergoing open GBP are unlikely to be related to postoperative dietary practices. Our data are consistent with previous reports implicating metabolic differences between the two racial groups.

1: Obes Surg. 2006 Feb;16(2):159-65.Links

Ethnic differences in obesity and surgical weight loss between African-American and Caucasian females.

Buffington CK, Marema RT.

U. S. Bariatric, Fort Lauderdale and Orlando. drbuff@..., FL 33308, USA

BACKGROUND: In the general population, African-American females are more obese and resistant to weight loss than Caucasian women. In the present study, we examined the severity of obesity among morbidly obese African-American and Caucasian females, studied the effectiveness of Roux-en-Y gastric bypass (RYGBP), and sought to identify factors contributing to obesity and weight loss. METHODS: The study population included 153 morbidly obese females randomly selected from our general bariatric patient population. Anthropometric measurements consisted of body weight, body mass index (BMI), excess weight, and waist, hip, thigh, and neck circumferences. Factors that may contribute to obesity included age, age of obesity onset, number of childbirths, calorie intake, diet composition, and degree of psychological distress. The effects of RYBGP were studied in weight-matched groups of African-American and Caucasian females (n=37 per group) at weight loss nadir, i.e. 12 to 18 months after surgery. RESULTS: We found that morbid obesity is more severe among African-American than Caucasian females. The greater degree of obesity of African-American, as compared to Caucasian, females is not due to ethnic differences in calorie intake, diet composition, age or age of obesity onset, number of childbirths, and psychological distress. RYGBP is less effective in reducing body fat and, consequently, excess body weight of the African-American than the Caucasian females, suggesting possible ethnic differences in fat metabolism. CONCLUSION: African-American females with morbid obesity have greater adiposity than do Caucasian women and lose significantly less body fat after RYGBP.

1: J Assoc Acad Minor Phys. 2001 Jul;12(3):129-36. Links

Bariatric surgery for severe obesity.

Sugerman HJ.

Department of Surgery, Medical College of Virginia, Virginia Commonwealth University, Richmond, Virginia 23298-0519, USA. hsugerma@...

Severe obesity is associated with multiple comorbidities and is refractory to dietary management with or without behavioral or drug therapies. There are a number of surgical procedures for the treatment of morbid obesity, including purely gastric restrictive, a combination of malabsorption and gastric restriction or primary malabsorption. The purely gastric restrictive procedures, including vertical banded gastroplasty and laparoscopic adjustable silicone gastric banding, do not provide adequate weight loss. African-American patients do especially poorly after the banding procedure with the loss of only 11% of excess weight in one study. Gastric bypass (GBP) is associated with the loss of 66% of excess weight at 1 to 2 years after surgery, 60% at 5 years and 50% at 10 years. For unknown reasons, African-American patients lose significantly less weight than Caucasians after GBP. There is a risk of micronutrient deficiencies after GBP, including iron deficiency anemia in menstruating women, vitamin B12, and calcium deficiencies. Prophylactic supplementation of these nutrients is necessary. Recurrent vomiting after bariatric surgery may be associated with a severe polyneuropathy and must be aggressively treated with endoscopic dilatation before this complication is allowed to develop. The malabsorptive procedures include the partial biliopancreatic bypass (BPD) and BPD with duodenal switch (BPD/DS). The BPD appears to cause severe protein-calorie malnutrition in American patients; the BPD/DS may be associated with less malnutrition. Weight loss failure after GBP does not respond to tightening a dilated gastrojejunal stoma or reducing the size of the gastric pouch. These patients may require conversion to a malabsorptive distal GBP, similar to the BPD. However, because of the risk of severe protein-calorie malnutrition and calcium deficiency BPD should be reserved for patients with severe obesity comorbidity. The risk of death following bariatric surgery is between 1% and 2% in most series but is significantly higher in patients with respiratory insufficiency of obesity. In most patients, surgically induced weight loss will correct hypertension, type II diabetes mellitus, sleep apnea, obesity hypoventilation syndrome, gastroesophageal reflux, venous stasis disease, urinary incontinence, female sexual hormone dysfunction, pseudotumor cerebri, degenerative joint disease pains, as well as improved self-image and employability.

Wenda C.
on 10/14/10 11:38 am - Combine, TX

Oooo, appeal!  Appeal!  Do everything you can to get the surgery you are wanting.

As a patient of Dr. Kim I understand the latter part of your post.  I wish he was still doing the DS.  Keep plugging along, do everything you can and then some to get your DS.

No great words of advice, but lots of good wishes coming your way.

Wenda

HW/DOS/Now
300+/273/156
Lap DS  2/3/03
Open Leak Repair  12/5/03

      
M. J
on 10/15/10 2:51 am - West Palm Beach, FL
 Do U know Y did he stop doing the DS??? I really wish he still did too!!! He's closer to me and he accepts my insurance as well!!! 
Wenda C.
on 10/15/10 3:17 pm - Combine, TX
Well, I can tell you what he said, and then I can tell you what I think.  They kind of go hand in hand.

When we talked about him stopping the DS he said it was because he didn't have the right ICU facilities at Celebration that he needed.  In theory I'm OK with that, but I don't know what's stopping him from fixing the situation.  Why can't the employees be trained to handle critical bariatric patients?  Do all of is RnYs and other peeps not EVER have to go to ICU?  Is it ONLY the DSers?  I think not.

Personally, I think he got scared ****less.  I was his first major complication, and it wasn't his fault.  My top staple eroded, just fell apart, causing my leak and subsequent fistula.  I never have and never will blame him.  The next year he operated on a friend of mine. Initially she did very well, got home was doing what she was doing to heal properly and then she threw a clot, actually, three of them.  Again, not his fault.  Clots are a risk with any and all surgeries as everybody knows.  But my friend came very close to dying, vented in ICU, trached, into rehab for a while, and I think two of us in a year were just too much for him.

On a personal note, while I respect the man and is compassion and skill, I did fire him as my surgeon.  Once he moved to Florida from Mississippi it became increasingly difficult to have contact with him.  His front desk as well as the nurses didn't seem to want to have much to do with his 'former' patients from his first practice.  I tried in vain for months to get in touch with him, but he never once returned a call or email.  Not once.  I even had made a follow up appointment once I moved to Texas.  I flew down, stayed with a friend, rented a car, all that a visit to another town entails.  When I got to the office I was told he was out for the day.  I received no phone call, no notice whatsoever.  I was a tad bit upset.  His motto was always "Once your my patient, you're my patient for life".  I found that to be untrue.

I would be most interested in talking to him now and getting his views on the DS.  I haven't seen him in probably six years and I really do miss him!  If you do end up going with him for a different surgery, you're in very good hands.  And if you DO get to see him, please tell him I said a great big HELLO!!  Maybe try making an appointment with him and asking him pretty please would he do a DS on you??  lol

Feel free to contact me anytime!

Wenda
HW/DOS/Now
300+/273/156
Lap DS  2/3/03
Open Leak Repair  12/5/03

      
Sheanie
on 10/14/10 11:43 am
Ditto what Becky said.  Going to a RNY surgeon looking for a DS is kinda like shopping for tampons in a hardware store.  You might find something that could work, but it's still not what you really want.  So don't settle for RNY.  Hold out for the DS.  Revision from RNY to DS is even harder to find, and you'll absolutely have to travel for that.  Do it right the first time, so you have no regrets later.  Regrets are really hard to live with.

Another euphemism for you:  A RNY surgeon will see every WLS patient as a potential RNY patient.  Just like if the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem you encounter will look like a nail to you.

I.  am.  not.  a.  doctor.

HW 250ish  SW 219  CW 110  LW 100


 

(deactivated member)
on 10/14/10 11:53 am - San Jose, CA
Hoddinott used to be a DS surgeon.  Reports on him were ... mixed at best.  He was removed from the duodenalswitch.com list several years ago.
Sheanie
on 10/14/10 12:02 pm

I stand corrected.  Didn't someone have a saying about Hoddinott?  Something like "DS but not"??

Hey Diana, how do you like my euphemisms?  Hammers and nails?  Tampons at a hardware store? 

I.  am.  not.  a.  doctor.

HW 250ish  SW 219  CW 110  LW 100


 

(deactivated member)
on 10/14/10 12:08 pm - San Jose, CA
Both of those are true analogies!

Add to it: A Kia dealer isn't going to tell you about how wonderful a Mercedes is.
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