Why are we so passionate?

why can't we support people without placing blame? i mean if someone is slamming donuts well then yeah, obviously they're not following the program, but there are people who follow the program and through no fault of their own, come to a standstill on their journey. there are people who hit standstills due to hernias, poorly made pouches etc.

We have a tool, if the tool doesn't work, which rarely but occasionally does happen, why would you expect someone to be able to follow the program any better than you could do so before you had your working tool? If it's just a matter of having "will power" and following the program than NONE OF US would have needed surgery.

No matter how you look at it, nobody puts the spoon to our face but ourselves.  Personally, being chopped open and having my insides rearranged, was enough for me to say, "what the hell was I doing to myself!"  I don't need will power anymore, never did, just enough time away from the food to have a different perspective of what I was capable of.  People don't need to hear that they are helpless and can't help themselves.  They need to know that they are much more powerful than they realize and with the right motivation (i.e. success for ONCE with weight loss) they can continue the program.  People who start out the wls with medical problems are the RARE exception not the rule.   Love you Jay! Wendy

i'm just saying it's not black and white, that you can not say it's always because the person doesn't follow the rules. that's wrong. it's a cop out.

I know someone right now who was just told her pouch is way too big and it's NOT due to her not complying with the program, i'm glad she didn't see this thread as it's designed to put her down and boost others up.

If all i need was a change of perspective, i would not have risked my life to have this surgery and any responsible doctor would have refused to perform it on me. I didn't need "time away from the food" as i had lost over 100lbs many times and always gained it back. what's different this time that i've been more successful than most? MY TOOL WORKS. That's where i found the help i needed, through SUCCESSFUL SURGERY. It took surgery and dedication, my dedication alone was not enough and the surgery alone was not enough (as evidenced by how many people did have successful surgery but have not done as well.)

Cause, "I'm just a love machine, And I don't work for nobody but you,,,," kp

This is going to be my one and only weigh in (pun intended) on this issue.  When I see someone posting post op, and it's clear they don't know what to eat for an extended period of time, I stay away from those posts.  They make me so frustrated.  I consider myself a pretty nice person....but you can only help so much.  My NUT gave me a TEST (yes, it was written) and I had to give her sample menus of what I would eat at every stage post op.  Who are these docs that are performing surgery on people that don't have a clear understanding of what life post surgery will be like?  Where did these NUTS get their training if they are not giving sample menus and ideas on what to eat?  Does your nut welcome email and respond within a few hours?  Mine does. I don't look down on anyone for coming across stumbling blocks.  I have hit them myself.  But there does come a point for me where I just can't answer the same question any more.  I'm sitting here by my computer looking at the small reference library I got from U of M and wishing everyone had what I do. Judgement isn't something that any of us have the luxury of indulging in.  If you see that someone is not up to hearing the harsh truth, then let it go.  Don't post your opinions to them any more, and move on.   I don't want to see anyone fail, either, but there is no point to get into a big dramatic scene.   I wish the best to all of you newbies.  We all do love to answer questions, just not the same ones over and over again. And just FYI....the day we get spell check on here I will be doing a happy dance.

just a thought... isn't part of posting on a board like this the 'kick in the pants' it gives us when we're not staying on track. if i come and post that i've opted for pizza and cake for dinner for 3 nights in a row, i'm doing it knowing full well that the people on this board will step up and say "what are you doing?" part of the support a board like this offers is ACCOUNTABILITY. if i *really* didn't want anyone to give me that wake up call, i wouldn't post anything... and as far as helpful suggestions go, really, what can one say if you continue to to make bad food choices? in my eyes, the only truly helpful thing that can come at that point is someone being honest and straight-forward... accountability is a huge part of success... it's why i'm on this board, it's why i'm seeking out a support for post-op, it's why i've started seeing a therapist again. and while i don't claim to know or have read every thread that was referred to here, i know i've read at least one and the response seemed honest and up-front, but not cruel...

Our problem isn't our surgery or lack of it. Nor is it that our heads are working against us and making us want,,,,, It is our mode of communication and the fact that we have become accustomed to not being personal on a personal issue. Talking through the computer is very dangerous. It lends itself to misinterpretation every time. We understand each other because we speak either face to face or via phone on a regular basis. We provide a poster an answer that can go one of two ways - love it or hate it. My style and your style are similar in that we go for fact based to the point answers and that may not be what a person can handle. We have no way of knowing until they post back or stop posting and retreat. It would help us if we had a warning system that would alert us to how a person's psyche is at the time of the post but unless it is actual conversation we will never know. Although I am an artist, I am a realist. Realists ct to the chase. You cut to the chase. Your words are sound and if it were me that asked for and got your opinion it would be well received. You will not mislead nor will I so I look at the post and see if I can see something that marks the person as fragile. I now stay away from their post. I got my tit in a wringer because I throw straight fast balls over the dish. I may end up like that again but I do look first. kp

Very Well Said. I think that this is problem with communicating on the board. I have met you and your lovely wife personally and I would have never thought of you being hash, but as you said things come across much differently in typed words then they do, with care and passion in our voice and body language. But we all don't know each other on a personal level, so it can make this all very difficult. I think we need a permanent sticky at the top of this board with a disclaimer....... If you don't want good sound advice.....Then DON'T ask.......LOL. It is hard to remember how it was emotionally when we were newbies. I do remember how much I was afraid of failure.....again. But I didn't have "Oldtimers" for guidance, We are some of the first of the new generation of WLS. There wasn't very many of us when I started my journey. We where all within months of one another so we just hung on to each other for dear life, when we made mistakes we made them together, we would get up dust are selves of and get back on the pony, so that we could continue this journey together. I think that is what I miss about this board. There was a lot of comradery, because we were all in the same place. Now it kinda feels like Them vs. Us. I know that is NO ONES intent, that is just how it seems to me. Do you know what I mean? I am glad you are back by the way.

All I can say, Is "It's NOT what you say......It's HOW you say it. You can tell someone the rules and tell them the consequences without brow beating them. We all have our opinions. As the saying goes....Opinions are like A** H**** we ALL have one....LOL. Jon, I am not trying to come down on you or anyone else either. I do understand your "ideals", but dogging people and publicly flogging them isn't going to help. I do get frustrated when I read about someone not following the rules, but I know that the best way to get someone to "hear" what you are saying, Is to direct them in a way that they are willing to listen. Beating people up on board is going to do the opposite effect. All you are producing is GUILT and SHAME. What are two of the biggest emotions that drive a food addict back to their drug.  I am sure we will only agree to disagree.....but I do remember the Jon I first saw standing against a wall trying to blend in so many years ago. In Frankenmuth. Do you remember that guy.......

I would like to think I'm not trying to beat people up.  I don't think I've said anything to anyone to shame them.  I know full well the addiction of food and all the ramifications of it.  I guess that's why it frustrates me to see people making poor choices.  I try hard to take it easy on people and still give them sound advice.  We need people like you, just like we need people like me to give a balanced opinion.  That's why I think it is more important than ever to get opinions from all kinds of "old-timers".  Some are more harsh than others.  We need the balance of both.  I have always respected your opinons on this board as you provide as much support as anyone.  It is all about perspective and we need everyone's perspective to give "newbies" the whole range of opinions. Jon