Denial: It ain't just a river in Egypt
"DSers NEED to eat high fat. The malabsorption which is designed to give the best EWL and lowest long term regain REQUIRES DSers to eat high fat to absorb some vitamins."
Which is a big negative in my book.
I think the typical DS diet is pretty gross. I think cheeseburgers are greasy and disgusting, I don't l like bacon much either. Donuts always disappointed me because I'd feel like there some kind of thick coating on my tongue when I was done eating them and they'd sit like lead in my stomach. I would pull the skin off fried chicken because I didn't like it, not because some diet program told me too.
Now I do prefer butter to margarine, but that's more a natural vs. artificial thing. I often put a lot less in than the recipe calls for so my food won't be overwhelmed with that greasy, coated feeling it gets when it's too high fat and the true flavors can shine through.
Even at my worst when it came to food, when I would snack all day instead of eat meals, fat was only about 20-30% of my diet. Now that WLS has changed my tastes even more, I pretty much never go over 30 g of fat a day and I *never* watch my fats or make a conscious effort to limit them.
I say this only to point out that *everyone is different* and what you see as a plus, I see as a negative. Since these are personal value judgements, neither of us is wrong, either. It's just personal preference.
Which is a big negative in my book.
I think the typical DS diet is pretty gross. I think cheeseburgers are greasy and disgusting, I don't l like bacon much either. Donuts always disappointed me because I'd feel like there some kind of thick coating on my tongue when I was done eating them and they'd sit like lead in my stomach. I would pull the skin off fried chicken because I didn't like it, not because some diet program told me too.
Now I do prefer butter to margarine, but that's more a natural vs. artificial thing. I often put a lot less in than the recipe calls for so my food won't be overwhelmed with that greasy, coated feeling it gets when it's too high fat and the true flavors can shine through.
Even at my worst when it came to food, when I would snack all day instead of eat meals, fat was only about 20-30% of my diet. Now that WLS has changed my tastes even more, I pretty much never go over 30 g of fat a day and I *never* watch my fats or make a conscious effort to limit them.
I say this only to point out that *everyone is different* and what you see as a plus, I see as a negative. Since these are personal value judgements, neither of us is wrong, either. It's just personal preference.
HW - 225 SW - 191 GW - 132 CW - 122
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(deactivated member)
on 2/8/09 7:11 am - Woodbridge, VA
on 2/8/09 7:11 am - Woodbridge, VA
I agree that everyone is different, but I would like to point out there is not such thing as "the typical DS diet," just as all VSGers don't eat the same thing.
I know people zoom in on those who talk about their greasy burgers and half pounds of bacon, but that's not the way all DSers eat. I've seen many DSers be happy to be able to enjoy a more natural diet--real milk, cheese, butter, whole eggs, etc. Eating higher in fat can include things like nuts and nut butters, cooking with EVOO, avocados, etc.
Just pointing out that not all fat has to be greasy and nasty, and not all Dsers eat the same. It seems a lot of people lump all the DSers together ("they," "the DSers," etc.), which is just as wrong as someone trying to lump all VSGers or RNYers or whatever together. Like you said, everyone is different.
I know people zoom in on those who talk about their greasy burgers and half pounds of bacon, but that's not the way all DSers eat. I've seen many DSers be happy to be able to enjoy a more natural diet--real milk, cheese, butter, whole eggs, etc. Eating higher in fat can include things like nuts and nut butters, cooking with EVOO, avocados, etc.
Just pointing out that not all fat has to be greasy and nasty, and not all Dsers eat the same. It seems a lot of people lump all the DSers together ("they," "the DSers," etc.), which is just as wrong as someone trying to lump all VSGers or RNYers or whatever together. Like you said, everyone is different.
Hmmmm....
"Typical DS diet"
You know what they say when you "assume".
After 6+ years in the wls community and monthly get togethers at restaurants with other DSers, the "typical" DS diet is far from what you describe.
Here's the kind of stuff I eat at four years out.
Breakfast:
Protein shakes made w/ full fat milk, scrambled eggs w/ cheese and once a week or so w/ ham. I only eat bacon twice a month or so. Sometimes I eat oatmeal or Cream of Wheat w/ a scoop of protein powder mixed in. Once in a while, I make ricotta pancakes.
Lunch:
Salad with chicken breast strips. I usually add a tablespoon or two of full fat salad dressing. Sometimes I have 8 oz of leftover chili w/ cheese & sour cream or a Subway type sandwich, sans part of the bread. Sometimes it's a can of tuna with miracle whip or mayo generously mixed in ... with one slice of whole grain bread or whole grain crackers. Sometimes it's deli meat and cheese.
Snacks:
Sometimes it's good for you stuff like fruit, veggies and dip or kids yogurt (less sugar) mixed w/ cottage cheese to boost the protein. Other times it's junk. A slice of homemade banana bread, a couple of homemade cookies, cheetos, dark chocolate, instant pudding mixed w/ whole milk or even a scoop of full fat ice cream or since it's that time of year ... a handful of Girl Scout cookies ... Thin Mints, yummmmm!
Dinner:
Usually a 4-6 oz serving of meat ... pot roast, carnitas, chicken (no matter how it's cooked, I peel off the skin), shrimp, with a half cup of either rice or potatoes, and a half cup of veggies. Sometimes I have a slice of bread or a roll w/ butter.
I have a greasy burger a couple times a month, usually leaving half the bun ... maybe 3 or 4 times a month. Donuts? Maybe once a month if someone brings them to work. Not daily, like you seem to assume.
And this is the kind of stuff I see DSers eat when we get together. We have had as many as 35 Southern Calif DSers gathered for lunch. And I've been eating with DSers for close to SIX years, so I've seen it all.
In addition to milk, I drink a whole lotta water. And eat organic or natural whenever I can.
So your OPINION that DSers eat "gross" is based on faulty information or your selective hearing (or reading in this case). I eat normal portions, without worry of regain, just like any "naturally thin" person. I no longer have to choose low-fat tasteless versions of foods I love.
However, you are dead wrong about fat not allowing flavors to come thru. I have a degree in Home Economics (now you know how OLD I am, lol) and do foodservice marketing for a living. Fat is the element that gives flavor to food! Not the opposite, like you seem to think. (You say: "so my food won't be overwhelmed with that greasy, coated feeling it gets when it's too high fat and the true flavors can shine through.")
Again, since you are a relative newbie to the wls world, I will give you a break for your ignorance.
"Typical DS diet"
You know what they say when you "assume".
After 6+ years in the wls community and monthly get togethers at restaurants with other DSers, the "typical" DS diet is far from what you describe.
Here's the kind of stuff I eat at four years out.
Breakfast:
Protein shakes made w/ full fat milk, scrambled eggs w/ cheese and once a week or so w/ ham. I only eat bacon twice a month or so. Sometimes I eat oatmeal or Cream of Wheat w/ a scoop of protein powder mixed in. Once in a while, I make ricotta pancakes.
Lunch:
Salad with chicken breast strips. I usually add a tablespoon or two of full fat salad dressing. Sometimes I have 8 oz of leftover chili w/ cheese & sour cream or a Subway type sandwich, sans part of the bread. Sometimes it's a can of tuna with miracle whip or mayo generously mixed in ... with one slice of whole grain bread or whole grain crackers. Sometimes it's deli meat and cheese.
Snacks:
Sometimes it's good for you stuff like fruit, veggies and dip or kids yogurt (less sugar) mixed w/ cottage cheese to boost the protein. Other times it's junk. A slice of homemade banana bread, a couple of homemade cookies, cheetos, dark chocolate, instant pudding mixed w/ whole milk or even a scoop of full fat ice cream or since it's that time of year ... a handful of Girl Scout cookies ... Thin Mints, yummmmm!
Dinner:
Usually a 4-6 oz serving of meat ... pot roast, carnitas, chicken (no matter how it's cooked, I peel off the skin), shrimp, with a half cup of either rice or potatoes, and a half cup of veggies. Sometimes I have a slice of bread or a roll w/ butter.
I have a greasy burger a couple times a month, usually leaving half the bun ... maybe 3 or 4 times a month. Donuts? Maybe once a month if someone brings them to work. Not daily, like you seem to assume.
And this is the kind of stuff I see DSers eat when we get together. We have had as many as 35 Southern Calif DSers gathered for lunch. And I've been eating with DSers for close to SIX years, so I've seen it all.
In addition to milk, I drink a whole lotta water. And eat organic or natural whenever I can.
So your OPINION that DSers eat "gross" is based on faulty information or your selective hearing (or reading in this case). I eat normal portions, without worry of regain, just like any "naturally thin" person. I no longer have to choose low-fat tasteless versions of foods I love.
However, you are dead wrong about fat not allowing flavors to come thru. I have a degree in Home Economics (now you know how OLD I am, lol) and do foodservice marketing for a living. Fat is the element that gives flavor to food! Not the opposite, like you seem to think. (You say: "so my food won't be overwhelmed with that greasy, coated feeling it gets when it's too high fat and the true flavors can shine through.")
Again, since you are a relative newbie to the wls world, I will give you a break for your ignorance.
PRE OPS ... Want a surgery that has the least chance of long-term re-gain, is BEST at curing your Diabetes (98%+), removes much of the hunger hormone Ghrelin, NO DUMPING, NO MARGINAL ULCERS and NO STOMA / STRICTURES? CURIOUS WHY I CHOSE THE DS? VISIT MY PROFILE.
On February 8, 2009 at 5:21 PM Pacific Time, Laurie LOVES her DS wrote:
Hmmmm...."Typical DS diet"
You know what they say when you "assume".
After 6+ years in the wls community and monthly get togethers at restaurants with other DSers, the "typical" DS diet is far from what you describe.
Here's the kind of stuff I eat at four years out.
Breakfast:
Protein shakes made w/ full fat milk, scrambled eggs w/ cheese and once a week or so w/ ham. I only eat bacon twice a month or so. Sometimes I eat oatmeal or Cream of Wheat w/ a scoop of protein powder mixed in. Once in a while, I make ricotta pancakes.
Lunch:
Salad with chicken breast strips. I usually add a tablespoon or two of full fat salad dressing. Sometimes I have 8 oz of leftover chili w/ cheese & sour cream or a Subway type sandwich, sans part of the bread. Sometimes it's a can of tuna with miracle whip or mayo generously mixed in ... with one slice of whole grain bread or whole grain crackers. Sometimes it's deli meat and cheese.
Snacks:
Sometimes it's good for you stuff like fruit, veggies and dip or kids yogurt (less sugar) mixed w/ cottage cheese to boost the protein. Other times it's junk. A slice of homemade banana bread, a couple of homemade cookies, cheetos, dark chocolate, instant pudding mixed w/ whole milk or even a scoop of full fat ice cream or since it's that time of year ... a handful of Girl Scout cookies ... Thin Mints, yummmmm!
Dinner:
Usually a 4-6 oz serving of meat ... pot roast, carnitas, chicken (no matter how it's cooked, I peel off the skin), shrimp, with a half cup of either rice or potatoes, and a half cup of veggies. Sometimes I have a slice of bread or a roll w/ butter.
I have a greasy burger a couple times a month, usually leaving half the bun ... maybe 3 or 4 times a month. Donuts? Maybe once a month if someone brings them to work. Not daily, like you seem to assume.
And this is the kind of stuff I see DSers eat when we get together. We have had as many as 35 Southern Calif DSers gathered for lunch. And I've been eating with DSers for close to SIX years, so I've seen it all.
In addition to milk, I drink a whole lotta water. And eat organic or natural whenever I can.
So your OPINION that DSers eat "gross" is based on faulty information or your selective hearing (or reading in this case). I eat normal portions, without worry of regain, just like any "naturally thin" person. I no longer have to choose low-fat tasteless versions of foods I love.
However, you are dead wrong about fat not allowing flavors to come thru. I have a degree in Home Economics (now you know how OLD I am, lol) and do foodservice marketing for a living. Fat is the element that gives flavor to food! Not the opposite, like you seem to think. (You say: "so my food won't be overwhelmed with that greasy, coated feeling it gets when it's too high fat and the true flavors can shine through.")
Again, since you are a relative newbie to the wls world, I will give you a break for your ignorance.
Good lord, you are arrogant.
I know what food tastes like *to me*. I find too much fat puts a coating on my tongue and that hides the taste. A small amount enhances flavor, but it has to be a very small amount. But apparently I am "wrong" about this and only think I like what I like.
I really don't see how you can deny that I'd have to eat a lot more fat than I eat now if only 20% was absorbed. How onerous I would find that is not something you can know, but go ahead and tell me how wrong I am to think consuming 5x the fat I consume now when I eat exactly as much fat as I want to couldn't possible be bothersome to me...
HW - 225 SW - 191 GW - 132 CW - 122
Visit my blog at Fatty Fights Back Become a Fan on Facebook!
Starting BMI 40-ish or less? Join the LightWeights
I am giving you a break for your ignorance (born out of your relative newbie status) that you seem to think all DSers diets consist of greasy burgers and bacon. I am not talking about YOUR PREFERENCES IN FOOD. I am not being arrogant. I am giving you a break woman! Would you prefer me to call you a dumbass because you are spouting false information? Obviously being NICE to you isn't working!
Post Date: 2/8/09 2:54 pm You said this: "Donuts always disappointed me because I'd feel like there some kind of thick coating on my tongue when I was done eating them and they'd sit like lead in my stomach. "
So NOW (On February 8, 2009 at 5:35 PM Pacific Time, MacMadame wrote:) you're saying that the coating left on your tongue by donuts hides the taste? Make up your mind!
In my response, nowhere did I deny you'd have to eat a lot more fat if 20% was absorbed. Of course you would, if you wanted to absorb certain vitamins.
Two words: Reading comprehension.
Post Date: 2/8/09 2:54 pm You said this: "Donuts always disappointed me because I'd feel like there some kind of thick coating on my tongue when I was done eating them and they'd sit like lead in my stomach. "
So NOW (On February 8, 2009 at 5:35 PM Pacific Time, MacMadame wrote:) you're saying that the coating left on your tongue by donuts hides the taste? Make up your mind!
In my response, nowhere did I deny you'd have to eat a lot more fat if 20% was absorbed. Of course you would, if you wanted to absorb certain vitamins.
Two words: Reading comprehension.
PRE OPS ... Want a surgery that has the least chance of long-term re-gain, is BEST at curing your Diabetes (98%+), removes much of the hunger hormone Ghrelin, NO DUMPING, NO MARGINAL ULCERS and NO STOMA / STRICTURES? CURIOUS WHY I CHOSE THE DS? VISIT MY PROFILE.
Hmm. We both seem to be a bit worked up here. I think that is causing some miscommunication...
Okay, first of all, I was not saying that DSers eat bacon every day. I wasn't really talking about what DSers eat at all. I understand that it's annoying when people talk about your surgery type as if one particular experience is the same for all when it's not your experience. But I was not doing that and I'm sorry if it came off that way.
I was pointing out some foods that lots of people think are really yummy, but I don't think are yummy. I picked those foods because they seem to be universally loved by most -- which is probably also why *some* DSers, not all, dangle these foods in the face of pre-ops saying "you can still eat these if you get a DS".
The tongue coating thing happens to me with a certain amount of fat and that's my personal experience. I don't care how many experts say that fat enhances a food's flavors, once it goes over a certain amount, it doesn't enhance them for me. That's because a person's taste buds are unique to them and not everyone reacts to foods and flavors the same way. I'm the same way about salt. It takes an extremely small amount of salt before it stops "enhancing" the rest of the flavors and starts overwhelming them so all I can taste is salt.
This is my experience and no one can tell me I am "wrong" about it because no one else has my taste buds.
Finally the whole "newbie, let me school you" schtick gets really old. Really, really old.
First of all, I have been researching WLS for a year now. And, yes, unlike some people, I did research the DS. I've decided it was overkill for my particular problems and nothing that has happened since then, including the fact that I'm 18 lb. from a normal BMI in less than 5 months has made me think I made a mistake in my assessment of what I personally needed in a WLS.
Secondly, I was talking about my personal preferences in food and how having to add a lot more fat in my diet (probably 5x what I eat now) would not make me happy. It doesn't matter how far out I am or how far out you are ... I know myself and I know what I like to eat. I know that fat and I don't get along and that has been true for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with how long I've had my surgery. That particular piece of information is completely irrelevant to the discussion.
Okay, first of all, I was not saying that DSers eat bacon every day. I wasn't really talking about what DSers eat at all. I understand that it's annoying when people talk about your surgery type as if one particular experience is the same for all when it's not your experience. But I was not doing that and I'm sorry if it came off that way.
I was pointing out some foods that lots of people think are really yummy, but I don't think are yummy. I picked those foods because they seem to be universally loved by most -- which is probably also why *some* DSers, not all, dangle these foods in the face of pre-ops saying "you can still eat these if you get a DS".
The tongue coating thing happens to me with a certain amount of fat and that's my personal experience. I don't care how many experts say that fat enhances a food's flavors, once it goes over a certain amount, it doesn't enhance them for me. That's because a person's taste buds are unique to them and not everyone reacts to foods and flavors the same way. I'm the same way about salt. It takes an extremely small amount of salt before it stops "enhancing" the rest of the flavors and starts overwhelming them so all I can taste is salt.
This is my experience and no one can tell me I am "wrong" about it because no one else has my taste buds.
Finally the whole "newbie, let me school you" schtick gets really old. Really, really old.
First of all, I have been researching WLS for a year now. And, yes, unlike some people, I did research the DS. I've decided it was overkill for my particular problems and nothing that has happened since then, including the fact that I'm 18 lb. from a normal BMI in less than 5 months has made me think I made a mistake in my assessment of what I personally needed in a WLS.
Secondly, I was talking about my personal preferences in food and how having to add a lot more fat in my diet (probably 5x what I eat now) would not make me happy. It doesn't matter how far out I am or how far out you are ... I know myself and I know what I like to eat. I know that fat and I don't get along and that has been true for well over a decade. It has nothing to do with how long I've had my surgery. That particular piece of information is completely irrelevant to the discussion.
HW - 225 SW - 191 GW - 132 CW - 122
Visit my blog at Fatty Fights Back Become a Fan on Facebook!
Starting BMI 40-ish or less? Join the LightWeights
Sigh. You still don't understand, do you? There is still time ...
Why eating 3000 cal/day = about 1300 cal absorbed: the "DS Math" post:
http://www.obesityhelp.com/forums/amos/a,messageboard/board_ id,4856/cat_id,4456/topic_id,3497583/action,replies/page,1/
Why eating 3000 cal/day = about 1300 cal absorbed: the "DS Math" post:
http://www.obesityhelp.com/forums/amos/a,messageboard/board_ id,4856/cat_id,4456/topic_id,3497583/action,replies/page,1/
Oh, and one other thing...as far as "paying it forward" goes...the overall *****iness of your approach to this board (which is full of kind people relaying THEIR experience in order to educate others, BTW) pretty much guarantees I'll disregard any advice that might be hidden within. I hate a bully. Great job your doing there.
Your attitude stinks as bad as....lol, never mind.
MM
Your attitude stinks as bad as....lol, never mind.
MM
(deactivated member)
on 2/8/09 7:19 am - Woodbridge, VA
on 2/8/09 7:19 am - Woodbridge, VA
I'm sorry you are unable to look beyond delivery approach to gain factual information. If I had done that, I would have missed out on a lot in life so far. Some things are more important than being nice or popular. You don't have to love someone to be able to pull helpful information from what they have to say.
I absolutely agree MM. I looked into all surgeries when I came here and ultimately chose VSG because it is what I believe will help me to lose weight and live a healthy life. I have not had surgery yet and while I am 100% confident in my decision I would have a hard time looking past the bad attitude and overall meanness to hear anything else being said. I do however find it interesting that Lap-Bander's, RNYer's, and VSGer's can seem to "educate and inform" in a civil and polite manner while many (not all) DSer's seem to bully their point across. Hmmm wonder why that is???
Tami
edited for spelling
Tami
edited for spelling
I am 5'4" HW 273 SW 255 CW 162.4
First Goal(s): Weigh less than hubby(DONE) and One-derland(DONE)!!!
Second Goal: Weigh 170 (what I weighed when hubby and I dated and got married) (DONE)!!!
Third Goal: Reach a normal BMI (145 lbs)
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