MHO on post-WLS LD's -- LONG.....

Barb, Hmmmmmm............Been debating on answering your post...........I'm one of the people your talking about.......... I agree with you to a point......... We all have different "standards." What works for one doesn't for another........Hat's off to the people that have never done a LD post surgery..........Great for you.......Your better than me I guess. I'm a little offended, and just a little ticked off, but I'll get over it......Yes, I did a LD for 3 days, and lost 4 pounds. Why? Because I was having problems with the carb monster.......I figured if I could be strong and try to help MYSELF first, then going to a theripst would not be nessessary..........Guess what? It worked...........I no longer am craving those carbs...........I helped myself which is more empowering for me than seeing a theripst for $150 bucks an hour............ I think rather than posting a thread like this you should have individually PM'd people, to me that would of shown more support. This seemed more like a slap in the face. I don't mean to offend anyone either.............I'm speaking from my heart, like it or not. I like to handle my issuses before I involve Doctors or anyone else. To me the LD worked, It kicked me into high gear. I did alot of my own soul searching, and realized why I was slipping to those carbs.........It was personal problems with my Mother & Father, that I have shared with only one person on here. That is all I have to say on this subject..................... Kelly

Hi Kelly, I'm sorry if I came off sounding self-righteous that I've never been on a liquid diet in 5 years.  Oh my, if this board only knew how many WLS "rules" I've broken....I should have been ex-communicated years ago.  I just hate to see folks not even a year out resorting to extreme measures...but hey...this is a personal journey and you do what you have to do.  Some of it is probably my own issues coming from being dragged to a TOPS Club when I was 9, and living through the Diet Center diet from hell of the 70's, and the liquid Cambridge Diet that landed me in ER in high school. So good luck in your journey....and I apologize if I sounded high and mighty....I'm quite the opposite as I suck down another Diet Coke....

Lori, Thank you.........................I did do what I thought was needed and it worked. Thanks for the apology, I accept....... We all make mistakes, and it does bother me when people assume they know it all and don't have any info. We are all different.....With different standards.....I just got off beat for a little bit because of issues with my parents, And I have taken care of it. Hopefully things will go smoothly now...... Thanks Lori for your kind words, Kelly

I DID NOT MENTION ANY ONE AND SPECIFICALLY STATED THIS WAS OVER THE PAST 3 MONTHS AND ON DIFFERENT BOARDS.  I LURK ON THREE OTHER BOARDS (OVER 50, DIET AND NUTRITION, AND WLS GRADS) AND THIS HAS BEEN A HAIR RAISER FOR A FEW MONTHS -- NOT JUST THE RECENT LD'S AND NOT ON THIS BOARD SPECIFICALLY.   KELLY -- Why do you assume I was talking about you specifically?  If it was for you specifically, I would pm you -- ask a few that I have pm'd about behavior....They'll tell you.... EVERYONE ELSE -- None of us have different standards ...... eat protein first, exercise, get in your liquids.  If you have other issues, talk to your doctor.  The doctor will advise you.  This is a sounding board.  No where on this board does it say -- my doctor said it was okay to.....PERIOD!!!  People don't talk to their doctor first because you damn well know no variance to getting back to the basics would have been okay.  So stop throwing shoes.... I think it's more of the hard face of the reality that NOT following the standards (eating the carbs,  drinking pop, alcohol or coffee, etc. ) works for some and doesn't for another.  If someone pushes the envelope thinking it won't matter for them, what has the surgery gained you?  And to not just start fresh the next day by getting back on track, but to continue the behavior for days or months on end-- what does that say about what the surgery gained you?  That's the part that needs to be looked at.  Why do we sabbotage the gift of the surgery? There seems to be a few people unhappy about this post -- but guess what -- got you all thinking too!!!  Maybe a back door way to kicking everyone into high gear!!!  The 5 day pouch test suggested by Linda Ann kicked a few into gear -- great idea and I hope you guys have the success you are wishing for.  Am I going to say "way to go" and keep it up.  Sure -- right after your doctor does..... Is it the right answer?  Maybe the first thing to answer that question would be -- is it the right question?  Why do I have a carb monster?  Answer -- you pushed the limits and it didn't work.  Why do I feel that a LD or the 5 day pouch is the only way I can kill the carb monster -- cause it's been on the boards since I started posting here before my surgery and everyone says it works!!!  Is it the right question and answer?  Right!!!!  We all know the answer to that.....why am I wrong because I express it?  l don't think I said anything about myself in the post nor did I mention others being better than anyone else.  Should I be offended because it was mentioned this in response to my post?  I'm not because I know myself better than that.   And do any of you think I haven't had issues too?  Why would you think that people who actually applaud this post haven't had issues even more terrible than anyone elses problems?  There are some on this board who have had absolute terrible and horrific experiences in their lives, including me.  This isn't a contest on who is stronger, smaller, skinnier, cuter, in a what size, etc.  And because you may not agree with my post, why would anyone think that supporting wrong behavior is showing more support?  Maybe bringing up the issue is the best support that can be given.  Someone needs to do it every once in a while.  Everyone can't applaud this behavior and think that down the road someone who is just joining us won't think they can do it too.  Well hell, if I do vary from the plan, I can just do a quick LD and lose the weight I gained.....Hmmmm.. sound familiar? This is certainly not the board from last year.  Guess what gang -- I'm not backing down on my comments.  If it's not in the rules (standards) you won't get me to say it's okay for any reason.  I've been down this road a few times too.  I won't tell anyone it's okay to drink alcohol, I won't tell anyone it's okay to drink pop, I won't tell anyone it okay to drink coffee, I won't tell anyone it's okay to smoke.  Have I done any of these -- oh hell yes -- I drink a lot of coffee (and a lot of extra water to combat the dehydration because of it), and I have had a glass of wine (one sip wine, one sip water) and a bit of a marguarita (one sip dink, two sips water), and I smoked 2 packs a day for 35 years up until 5 years ago.   I make choices every second of every day.  So do all of you.....like when you get pissed off at the guy ahead of you in traffic doing the legal speed limit but he won't get out of your way so you can speed?  Imagine that -- being pissed at someone who won't follow a law.  Now this same person is going 50 down your residential street -- now you get pissed?  Why is speeding okay any where -- cause no cop around, so why not.  ISame theory -- I can just do a quicky fix and go ahead and eat this crap.   If anything this post gets you to rethink what are we doing to thank ourselves for the gift of this surgery?  Am I doing everything I can to regifted to those who follow?   I'm still feeling fiesty!!!!  

XXOO

Again, well said!  ......it got me thinking as I have done the 5dpt and why did I have to?  Because I chose to eat some carbs day after day and got off track.  Thanks, I needed this!  I LOVE LOVE LOVE your "cop theory"!!!  EXCELLANT!! HUGS!

Barb, Well I'm not fiesty...........I'm hurt........As far as assuming you were talking about me? I think it was obvious you were somewhat talking about Tracy and me, because we just did the LD. But whatever............ As far as your everyone else comments: I disagree with you, I believe, We all have different standards, but we do have the same rules to follow. But you know what Barb, were HUMAN, and not perfect, we make mistakes, and I decided to take my journey in my own hands and destroy the carb monster with a LD before he destroyed me. I don't see anything wrong with that. And No, I didn't call my Doctor because I know what is right for me. Now if I would have more problems in the future, the Doctor will be the first one I call.  As far as the comment on pushing the envelope, I wasn't intentionally trying to do that. I've been dealing with some major issues with my parents and let the carb monster take over. But I realized it and took him by the balls and got rid of him with the LD. Like it or not it worked. As far as you saying this post has got us thinking: It doesn't have me thinking at all, All's this post did was **** me off, make me cry and feel like a failure and then I pulled myself together again with the help of a few friends and remembered just why I did the LD, To get rid of the carb monster and to face head on the issues I have with my parents.  You assume you know why people have carb issues.......Well you don't, not in my case at least, you don't have a clue...........As I stated above, I was not pushing the the limits, NOT THAT IT'S YOUR BUSINESS, but I was emotionally eating carbs due to the problems with my parents. I dealt with the carb monster, and he's gone. Like it or not, it's an individual decision.  As far as the offence taken on being better than someone else: Well that's how I felt at the time, that you are better than me, but you came out and admitted that your no saint either. That you've made mistakes.  Not agreeing with your post statement: I guess I just don't agree with your post, I don't see this as being supportive, it sure didn't make me feel any better. You assume you know why people do this LD, your assumptions were way off with me. It wasn't because I was pushing the limit, I was going through an emotional stage in my life, and I turned to carbs. I guess I can say this till I'm blue in the face and you won't get it. I'm not the person you describe in your post, I was having a bad couple weeks emotionally and turned to carbs. And took care of it on my own and I'M PROUD OF MYSELF, FOR DOING IT MY OWN. If It wouldn't of worked I'd be the first one calling my Doctor. I come to this message board for support, and have gotton it 100%, until today.......I don't agree with your post and I don't agree with assumptions........You assume you know it all. And you don't. If I would of asked for your opinion, that would be different, but I didn't. This was your post. I guess I have a phrase someone once said, "If you don't have something nice to say, Don't say it at all." Kelly

This post will be on the board's twice -- once for you , and once for Tracy. Here is the first sentence/paragraph to my first post -- please read the bold and red parts.... "FIRST OFF -- THIS IS NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE IN PARTICULAR! AND NOT JUST ON THIS BOARD EITHER!!  But if the shoe fits, do you throw the shoe at the salesperson???  It is just my thoughts to help express my perception on LD's for those using them for weight loss.  To use them for a sore pouch from being ill, or for a reason outside of weight loss, is not what I'm talking about in this post.  But if you are doing it because you want to lose weight ......ARGGGGG!!!!  I'm pretty sure I'm gonn **** someone off, but I can't take it any more.  And with newbies and lurkers who use us for questions and opinions, it think it is important to say....." I tried not to get nasty with my second post, but apparently you two just want to get nasty with someone and today must be my day --  So -- isn't the carb monster ouside of the weight loss reason?  Did you say in your posts for your liquid diet that you were doing it to lose weight?  No -- so why did you turn this into being about you?  You did it for the carb monster -- fine.  So then this post had nothing to do with you since you did not use it for weight loss.  But you two just decide it's all about you and purposefully lash at me.  I think I remember this happening last week with another post.  I would think that you two would have taken that into consideration.   My second post even mentioned that I wished the 5dpt's good luck but I don't support not addressing the issues that got them into the situation to begin with.   Talk about talking until you are blue in the face.   And Tracy -- have you ever know me not to tell you something straight up?  Have you ever known me not to tell anybody anything straight up?  Nope.....but I guess you decided today was the day I was going to ***** foot around and do it to you!!!  I even mentioned that it had nothing to do with the 5 day pouch and you brought that right back in.  I didn't give you reasons for why the 5dpt was okay and the LD wasn't.  I wasn't addressing you and your issues or questions.  I was addressing those who use the LD as a weight loss technique.  Everybody totally *****es abot the LD before and after surgery and then reverts to it when then want to purge?  What does that have to do with YOUR carb monster?   I don't want to mention names of folks who have used this JUST to lose weight -- the only reason they did it.  No carb monster. --just to lose weight.  They haven't reached their number!!  That's who this was suppose to be directed to -- hmmm wasn't that mentioned? Oh -- that would be the "pretty little disclaimer."  I surely wouldn't mention names because I'd be scolded again for not pm'ing them instead.  I never said anything about the past week so where did this come from -- oh, that was Kelly's post -- not mine.  I said the past 3 months.  While I'm sure you really want to turn this into a post about the two of you, I'm sorry to say that others have posted on this subject -- I think some were doing it as far back as New Year's so they would be at a certain weight for the first of the year. I never said it was this board -- I never said I was posting to another board.  I said I was a lurker on other boards.  I've never posted to another board but I've lurked for months.  I see Connie D. on the over 50 board a lot.  Oops -- I got personal there!!! Not directing your posts toward me....Well maybe they shouldn't start with "Barb,"  or have stuff like "But you know what Barb" or "you think you know it all".  Or perhaps Kelly shouldn't include you in her comments, and vice versa......Or is there another Barb you are addressing.  If so, sorry I assumed you were answering my post. Holy crap -- I thought my grandson had an actively imagination....you two have totally rewritten the story.  Believe me -- I don't feel refuted or victimized.  Just glad I've seen the light with how you really feel about those of us who would express an opinion against something you are doing.  Guess how many honest answers you're getting from others in the future?

Barb, ENOUGH........LET'S JUST AGREE TO DISAGREE........ Kelly

Well said Barb. I think it was you that posted this for us last fall.... I kept it and read it whenever I feel myself "slipping" a little... now seems as good a time to RESHARE it as any:

THERE'S NO CRYING IN BASEBALL!!!By: Leilani[Original draft written June 2004 - - Revised: April 2006]That's the sentiment (scenario) that comes to mind sometimes when I hear some of the comments from people who've already had the surgery. In case you haven't made the connection, that's a line Tom Hanks made famous in the movie "A League Of Their Own." Resorting to tears or just giving up every time the going gets tough. Or your sick of taking vitamins, getting in protein is hard, water doesn't taste good, etc. That kinda' thinking is NOT going to make you successful or keep you healthy. ENOUGH already! It's time to LOVE yourself enough to get "TOUGH" wtih your aftercare. Your longterm health is worth it!!Success comes with a backbone, NOT a wishbone!First and foremost, you have to keep it POSITIVE. As with everything in life, if you think you can't - you WON'T! Simple enough?I have to wonder when "we" (as adults) finally take ownershipfor our actions, our life and our health? We have been given a gift, a second chance to actually LIVE life again instead of merely existing on the sidelines. It's up to each of us to do that as healthy and productively as possible.

We're ALL statistics waiting to happen and the insurance companies are chomping at the bit. The bean counters are eager to drop Weight Loss Surgery ("WLS") from the policies; some already have. Don't you know that any negative feedback thrown into the mix only strengthens their cause? I may not be able to control every thing that happens to my body after WLS, but most things I can. I CHOOSE to take control and I will be a positive statistic when the numbers get counted. We live in a spoiled society, expecting everything in life to come with a buncha really cool choices. Well, guess what? When it comes to your health, you're not always going to get a choice. You either DO IT and stay healthy, or you DON'T and your body pays the price.The way I saw it, I had a 90 day healing and adjusting period after surgery. My 'super morbidly obese' body had more than enough stores to survive the learning curve. In turn, it gave me plenty of time to heal, adjust and learn. For those of you OVER 90 days Post-Op, the probation period is over - its time to get serious and LIVE what you've learned. * You say you can't get in enough liquids throughout the day, don't like the taste of water, or just keep forgetting? -- TOUGH! It's not an option anymore. Find a way to do it, get suggestions and tips from others in support groups, message boards, etc. Read, learn and JUST DO IT!! Why do you think there is a choice here?* You say you don't like the big horse pill type vitamins, or the tart chalky chewables? ... it's just too many to bother with? Or maybe you just can't remember to take them? -- TOUGH! You gave up the option NOT to take vitamins when you agreed to have your insides rerouted. FIND a way to get them in; crushed, minced, chopped, liquified, in a shake, etc. No exceptions, your health depends on it.* Protein is a must. So you can't get it all in via foods and you don't like the way the shakes taste? -- TOUGH! Either get it through your meals (and there are a gazillion food choices out there) or supplement it with protein shakes and bars.Trust me, I don't drink my protein shake every morning because I think it tastes like a chocolate blizzard from Dairy Queen. I've tried many varieties over the last 2 years. I'd even venture to say 25 of the top sellers/flavors have crossed my lips. For the record? I've yet to find one that is as 'delicious' as boasted by the distributor. So what. I still drink one every morning. My HEALTH dictates that I need "X" grams of protein per day. If I'm not getting enough from my meals then I supplement a shake. 'Nuff said.This surgery is a gift, I owe it to me and everyone else fighting the approval process, to do it right! I will continue to choke down my vitamins, my water and my protein every single day, for the REST OF MY LIFE. Some days will be easier than others, regardless, no days will be missed.It's all about discipline. Create a routine, set a timer, develop a pattern, tie a string around your finger, glue a note on your forehead, whatever it takes.You're an adult - take responsibility! If this surgery doesn't slap a back bone into you, not much will.