Need to check my thinking...

I always dreamed of being a 'normal eater.'  Can I have a cookie and not the whole bag?  If I want a 'treat,' and I've gone through my list of mindfulness cues and have come up with the answer that I really just want a treat, can I/should I have it?

So much of this journey is in my head.  I'm finding myself wrestling with it this week.  I have surpassed my weight loss goal (and the clinic's goal), I have surpassed my exercise goal.  I eat well, I exercise, I practice CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy) strategies when it comes to eating.  I am in a good place at home, work, in my relationships.  Sometimes I just want a cupcake.  I think I am becoming a normal eater, but I find myself feeling guilty when I want something that doesn't have vitamins or protein in it.  The guilt factor is new to me.  I haven't felt guilt about food since before surgery and I don't like it.  I plan my meals for the day and stick to them.  Breakfast, lunch, dinner, healthy snacks in between.  Vitamins & fluids all day.  So can I have the small piece of pie at thanksgiving and go on my merry way?  I think I can...but is that my mind playing tricks on me?  Am I headed down a slippery slope? 

I'm curious to know from those of you who have reached & maintained goal weight...are you able to incorporate sweets or treats into your diet or do you avoid them altogether?  What is the liklihood of becoming an 'everything in moderation' eater - or is that a fallacy for us formerly obese people?  What do you think?

Thank you Kerry for this post!!!
I look forward to reading the responses too!!
BTW, can you share some of your CBT strategies?
Thanks!!!

 Thanks for asking :)  CBT supports the belief that our thoughts cause our feelings & behaviours - not external things like people, situations & events.  So if you subscribe to that notion, essentially you can change your behaviour by changing your thinking.  Most of the CBT strategies I use are things that the clinic (at least at HRRH) also encourages, like setting goals.  I set weekly, sometimes daily goals not just about weight management, but about other things in my life.  I start with the question:  "What do I want to accomplish?" ,then "How am I going to do it?"  The 'what are you eating/doing today?' thread is a great example of the beginnings of a CBT strategy - it's the goal.  The steps are:  Goal, Plan, Do, Check.  I try to go through those steps with all of my goal setting. 
The other thing I do is mindful eating; there are lots of resources about mindfulness exercises but it's basically about acknowledging the role of food and experiencing the food for what it is.  Research shows that mindfulness is a powerful tool when treating most addictions.  It teaches us to make the connection between the substance and its' use and importance to us.  So when I eat, I minimize distractions and focus on the eating.  I think about what I'm eating & what it will do to my body - is it nourishing, how will it make me feel?  I savour the food, try to enjoy the flavour & texture.  These things have really helped me so far. 

I guess I'm just struggling with being OK with decision making when it comes to food.  Is it OK to opt for that thing that doesn't nourish you once in a while - or am I setting myself up to fail?  For me, the 'all or nothing' thinking is part of what got me to obesity in the first place so do I continue that or strive for more of a balance?  I'm really interested to know what others think and what works for them.

Kerry I am preop but here are my thoughts on this.  When I met with the nutrionist she said it is totally normal to not be perfect 100% of the time -she said it is more like 80/20.  If you want to have a small treat then I think you should be able to have it without the guilt.  But instead of a piece of pie-how about half a piece?  I read what are you eating today and Birdie girl seems to splurge a bit when she is out for a function but she plans it ahead of time and counts it.  I think that is great.  It isn't every day but once in a while I think it is ok.  This is just my opinion and I might get yelled at but I am just saying what the nutrionist said.  I think the people who get in trouble are the ones who test out all the junk food early on and haven't gotten over those addictions.  Just my opinion...Happy Thanksgiving.

I agree with Monica.  I believe guilt comes from the old way of thinking.  When I see people who have been thin all of their lives, they do not hesitate to have a treat now and then.  I hope to be able to have a treat once I get to my goal weight but I do want it so food does not drive me, I say what and when I eat.

I guess the question is to me.
Though, I'm not a RnY patient, don't have fear of dumping on sugar, just consider me a not dumping one.

Sorry, but I don't really believe in moderation. It always starts "like normal", but somehow the amount/frequency go up and up and I do end with "the whole pack'. Well, not exactly... but I always go beyond "normal" and have to forcefully stop myself and pay the consequences - fight my annoying 5-10 pounds regain. Some of my friends went over to 20, 30, 40 pounds... A colleague of mine regained I believe everything. Sorry for the pessimistic input, but IMHO, a food addict is a food addict  forever.

What I find working for me most of the time - the substitute. Don't know what you can "settle down on". But for me it's no sugar added chocolate, splenda sweetened home made stuff, and cream - being a DSer I lose weight with high fat foods, unfortunately pay the "diarrhea price", but buying a natural cream cake, scooping the cream and tossing the rest in the garbage.... helps to kill the craving, especially after "charging" towards washroom, lol.

Do I feel guilt? YES, after I see the scale going up I want to slap myself.
Can it be any different?

I don't know. I've never met a successful post op 4-6 years out who eats sweets. Maybe somebody manages to do the 'moderation" thingy... I never saw it so far. Most of people I know, either give up sweets or fight regain.

I am pre-op too, but I think that I want to try and avoid my trigger foods as much as possible..forever even (although that's likely a bit unrealistic).  The saying that ' one bite is too many, and a thousand are never enough' has certainly applied to me with my food struggles. 

Only you can answer if it is a slippery slope. Do you have enough self control to not go there again after? Goodness only knows I posted my idea of a way to have thank giving without feeling guilt over it... I'll share my previous post at the end of this one for anyone looking for "ideas"... make them work for you.

I have not, and will not feel guilt for eating something that is not perfect. I am pre-op but I won't do it. The only time I have ever felt "guilt" over food was... When I hid my chocolate stash (2 bags of mini truffles from lindt) because if I didn't my hubby or daughter would have eaten them... And they commented that they wanted chocolate. *looks innocent* We all got 2 bags each for x-mas. I still hadn't opened mine in March.

We all pick our ways of living... If you are feeling guilty that something isn't "nutritious" then make it so! If it is that it has too many calories... Then reduce them. Instead of looking to consume what we use to... Make the world and the food in it suit you.

You said... Pie. a piece of pie specifically... In my family that could mean apple, mince meat, lemon meringue, or pumpkin.

If you share which it is you would want. Maybe I or others can help you work it into a suitable way to have it. Heck we have things like crustless quiche, etc. so why can't we make a "healthier" version of deserts? I just need to know which direcion you want to take it so I can try to help.

I won't tell you it will be perfect but maybe we can at least come up with "reasonable" choices.


Slow roasted turkey breast... Wrapped in foil to lock the moisture in and baked without skin (do the breast or a whole turkey this way)... With a sprinkling of herbs to season it. Turkey sausage, apple, and dried cranberry stuffing (not a lot but a little would be good) OR turkey sausage, mushrooms, green onions and celery stuffing... Slow baked squash, asparagus... End it with a SF Jello Mouse Cup (or whatever) if you NEED desert.

As for cranberries... I make my own each year from fresh ones... The recipie on the bag calls for 1 cup of sugar but I use about 1/8th-1/4 of a cup instead. 1/4 cup of cane sugar is 180 cal (12 tsp = 1/4 cup - 1 tsp = 15 cal). You're not going to eat an entire pot of cranberries... Those little snack containers from glad rock. Do 1-2 tbsp servings into those until you have broken up the servings into portion sizes. I typically end up with about 12 of those + what I need for dinner for the family. When I crave cranberries I pull it out and eat it on anything I want.

So... Let's do this in style:

3oz roasted, skinless turkey breast - 135 cal
1 oz cranberries (prepped with my sugar quantities) - 28 cal (13 cranberries, 15 sugar)
1/8 of a cup of baked acord squash with no salt/butter - 15 cal (1 cup is 115 cal)
4 spears of asparagus with a 1/2" base boiled and drained - 13 cal
1oz Turkey sausage stuffing either way I mentioned - 75 cal (3 1/2oz or 100g of sausage is 150 cal max for pure turkey sausage, and the additional fruits or veggies would make up the balance of the calories)
SF Jello Mouse Cups are 60cal if you go that way and entirely optional!

Total cal before desert: 266 cal
With desert (which I doubt you could eat at the same sitting so maybe later as a snack) 326cal total.

Is it perfect? No. Would it give you "Turkey dinner"? Yep! Is it what a friend of mine had at my house for x-mas post RNY? YEP!

Relatively reasonable amounts of carbs. Low enough in sugars that she didn't have dumping and she was prone to it. Just eat slowly, and chew, chew, chew!

P.S. Dark meat ups the calories to 187 instead of 135.

P.P.S.
- Squash - bake with a bit of water in the middle and some herbs for a savoury flavour - bake 2hrs+ with foil over it and you can pretty much spoon it and it melts in your mouth.
- Asparagus - lay them flat in a pot/dish, boil water, and pour over. Cover and let sit 5min aldente, and 10 for softer. It makes them more tender for some reason. Remember to cut 1/2-1 inch off the bottom of the stalk so it takes up the water.
- Baking turkey covered in foil with some moisture (water with shiney side in for foil) will take a bit longer to cook at times, but will self baste because it is essentially steaming it. If you open it too often it will actually become dry. I usually add 10 min per lb, and take the foil off for only the last 30 min.
- Cranberries - Do them the day before, or even now and use them as you want. They freeze and thaw beautifully... Use a wooden spoon to stir them in the pot. Seems to work better, and cook to your preference. Some like it like jelly... Some like them only till they burst. It's your preference with this.

P.P.S.S. Can you tell I've given a lot of thought to turkey dinner?!

That all sounds so yummy  and reasonable. Think of me having my chicken broth and optifast.

Bookmark it for Christmas dinner... Or... 3 months out dinner... Or Easter.