Fat Makes You Skinny? and the reason for my frequent stalls!

Impressive, I LOVE your scientific approach. Way to own it, man. As far as fats, research is indicating what you say to be true more and more. That's why Mediterranean people eat all kinds of healthy fats and have less cardiovascular disease and weight problems that the U.S. BY FAR. Some moron in the 80's decided we all needed to go low fat, higher carb and you see how THAT has worked out for us, huh??

I think it all makes perfect sense when you look at it from an evolutionary point of view. Humans were originally hunter/gatherers, which equates mostly to higher protein/fat and lower carbs. Industrialization and farming changed that landscape and the invention of boxed foods, TV dinners, and fast food have put us on a fast-track to HELL. Sorry...that's my soap-box. Kudos.

What you are describing is a cornerstone of the Paleo diet. Your body is designed to burn fats, so yes...they are great for kick-starting a stall. (From my pre-op body building days)

I can't help much on the data front since I only recorded weight weekly, and I never really stalled (by my definition of a week without loss) through the whole process (ok, there was one week that coincided with a hydration/water retention gain associated with my travel schedule.) Since one of the common stall mechanisms is associated with glycogen starvation (certainly the dreaded third week stall fits this bill,) and I never followed the extreme low carb model, my speculation (based upon this sample of one!) has been that I never fully depleted my glycogen reserves to the point of getting into the stall period needed to rebuild those stocks from the fat reserves, but rather maintained a more consistent fat loss (and more consistent glycogen level,) throughout the entire loss period.

The thing that I could never wrap my brain around with the extreme low carb diets, particularly the more fat tolerant (or even fat promoting) ones like Atkins, is what good does it do to go to the extremes to promote the hypothetical early fat burning to replace deprived carbs only to throw a lot of fat back into the hopper that one is trying empty?

The main conclusion that I have been able to reach through the years of studying these problems is that our biochemistry is way more complicated than is presented in any of these formulaic diets - as soon as someone comes up with a simple, pat diet our bodies respond with "that's not the whole story..."

I am new to WLS... not to the theory you are describing and it's effects.

Yes... You are correct. The scale will move more for me if I have a moderate amount of fat vs low fat and a high fat will keep me from losing even if it is healthy fat.

That said...

If I am half way between low-moderate fat for my day... I might not see the scales move but I see the inches slide RIGHT off. It is sort of my own body fat being consumed for the balance. Too low and my body stores the fat it gets. Too high and I burn off both fat and muscle. Just right and... Well I lose ridiculous amounts of inches and only minute amounts of weight but my body fat drops nearly 2%.

It is the same for my calories... I know people aim for a "no higher than" concept but I'm a very successful loser (very successful! 54lbs Nov. 2007-April 2008 and 78lbs Nov. 2009-Apr. 2010)... I also have the best case of prednisone gain you can ever find. Think 20 lbs in a 400 mg week of prednisone. *eyebrow wiggle*

All of that said... I found out in the two rounds of losing that i did best when I had a calorie fluctuation from day to day... So aim between (at the time) 1200-1700 with 2-3 days at 1200-1400 with the following day bouncing up to 1700. Worked like a charm those 2 times. Failure to keep it fluid for my calories meant I would stall also... This past time I was rapidly losing inches but only fat and not muscle like I had the two times previously. I attribute that to keeping my fat to 30% of my daily calories.

For those who are new, or not aware:

Protein - 4 calories / g
Carbs - 4 calories / g
fat - 9 calories / 9

So using numbers I've seen lately over here:

90 g of protein = 360 calories
40 g carbs = 160 calories
Which comes to 520 calories... So if aiming for 600 it would be 8.8g of fat which is just a bit too low for me to lose lbs.

My own clinic uses 60-80g of protein minimum, 800 calories a day and a 40/30/30 split so this is their "ideal":

320 calories - 80 g protein
240 calories - 60 g carbs
240 calories - 26.66 g of fat
-----------------------------------------
800 Calories total.

They actually say 800-900 calories while losing but that is the "ideal" breakdown.

Interestingly the 60g of carbs is where my brain functions properly without me stumbling and walking into walls or suffering from "I can't think... i has the 'dumb'" moments.

Oh and following closer to this number... in 2.5 weeks I have lost 1 more inch off my hips, 1 off each bicep, .5 off each wrist, 1 off each thigh, .75 off each calf. Waist is still bloated from post op but only 1.5 inches over where I was the morning I had surgery so that's not bad. I can live with that 7.5 inches lost overall.

It may be a case of YMMV, but when I look back my stall-breaking drops have always happened when I quit being anal about my food, kept up my water and protein, got off my bum and otherwise relaxed a little. If I stick to whole, minimally processed food I simply don't have the capacity to eat enough calories to do anything but lose. (I love my sleeve)

I naturally eat fairly low fat since too much dense protein or anything high fat makes me vomit. (As does any food that is too dense or dry) I do eat nuts most days, real butter and I won't say no to a slice of avocado, but my main foods are low fat dairy, legumes, chicken, fish, veg, fruit and whole grains.

Which reminds me that it's lunch time and I have a date with some black bean soup.

What you say makes sense and could explain why I was eating on plan a few months back but was in a complete stall. Elina even looked over my meal plan and told me I was doing everything right. The fat count was low. I have stayed away from fats because in the past my high fat choices involved processed foods. I haven't found fat to be a trigger for me, but carbs sing to me from the pantry all day long. Well, ghosts of carbs because I threw all that stuff out ;)

I am one year post VSG and looking back on my numbers, I can see the correlation with low fat and stall. I didn't necessarily increase only my fat intake when the stall broke. Now that I can reach my daily hydration and protein numbers, I will try to confirm the higher fat content/protein ratio over the next week.

Thanks for sharing your research!!! I was losing steady until my trainer told me to cut back on my "fat"... Lol! -- stall ensued.

Also life gets hectic sometimes and I resort to shakes and prot bars some days... Stall always happens after those days 2.

I'll start monitoring from MFP and see how my body reacts to the different (cal/fat/prot) mix.  Definitely something to understand about my body. Stalls also usually result in "inches" lost and body changes. So they don't really bother me. I'm 10 lbs away from century club and 20 lbs away from goal. YEAH!

 

One thing I didn't do was record my weight every day even though I weighed myself.I was only recording when it when down, not when it stayed the same or went up a little. From here on out I will be recording it every day to get more accurate insight into what is going on. Now that I have compared it to fat I want to go back and add the previous data from where I started and I want to plug in my calories and carbs as well. I probably only have a small part of the picture, but I think I have enough compelling evidence from my findings to increase my fat intake over the next couple of days to see if I can get the scale moving again since it hasn't in over a week.

My Nut suggested the following for me.. I am 14 weeks out.. I am down 73 pounds and have not had a stall yet.. this is what I am doing...  800-900 calories  60-70 carbs.. 30-40 fat and 75+ on the protein.. I usually try to stick to this as close as possible, but of course somedays I might go under or over a bit.. I am also in the gym 5 times a week for 30-60 minutes a day depending on if I am in the pool or doing the NuStep Bike.. I try not to burn over 200 calories a day and then I try to add a bit of those back in my day with a glass of skim milk..  At my 3 month checkup the Dr. told me not to go below 700 calories a day for sure.. I told him where I was at and he said keep doing what I am doing since it is working for me.. My job is fairly active also but I don't count any calories burned at my job since I do that everyday anyway and my body is used to it.. I stand, walk, climb and sit.. so it is a combination of things I do at my job.. I am just not sitting down on my job everyday.. Also I am not eating junk or sugars.. Like I used to pre-surgery days.. so I am sure that is helping me out also.. Trying to eat clean and healthy.. I also have one protein shake a day usually my breakfast.. I work nights, so I am not a big breakfast person when I get up in the late mornings then hit the gym before work.. I also eat 4 times a day.. I pack my lunch every day for work..  I eat lunch right before work, then I eat on both my breaks at work.. when I get home I drink water and sometimes have a glass of milk if I feel I need it.. I don't eat after my last break at work.. Just thought I would share what is working for me right now..

There are actually studies that show obesity rates increases upon the introduction of low fat diets. Low fat actually means higher sugar. Since we are/were overweight, our bodies most likely don't process sugar very well which results in higher insulin and less weight loss. Stick to a healthy diet full of good, unprocessed foods and whole wheats.