Low Blood Sugar

Michelle:

Thank you for your response.  I cant tell you how good it is to hear from someone who is as far out as you are. I started to freak out about it that I was going to get really sick. I've got a blood sugar monitor and and am keeping a food journal and will talk with my doc on Friday. I used to be able to eat and would crash sometimes if I only had carbs but if I combined with protein I was okay. Now it seems that even that is an issue. Have you kept most of your weight off?  I have "The Pouch Rules"  for Bypass Surgery and it says 3 meals w/ no snacking but with this I definately feel my body drop off after a while if I dont eat. However, I dont want to gain weight. "THe rules also say that no liquid for 2-3 hours after meals, which makes it hard to get all my water in abiding by that eating 4+ meals a day. How soon after meals do you drink b/c I know that the quick emptying of our stomachs is a big part of what leads to the hypoglycemia.

I kept your msg here below:

Thank you for your response. I cant tell you how good it is to hear from someone who is as far out as you are. I started to freak out about it that I was going to get really sick. I've got a blood sugar monitor and and am keeping a food journal and will talk with my doc on Friday.
****** don't be too surprised if they don't know this form of hypoglycemia, which is shown on the yahoo grad archives as RHG

I used to be able to eat and would crash sometimes if I only had carbs but if I combined with protein I was okay.
******** mine was not consistent at all, until I went off all carbs of any kind to drop wt quickly last yr. I'd never done anything quite that radical before! LOL Amazing how much better I felt over all, actually. As I said, I can eat some fruits (just not as much as I'd like!) and veggies now, but avoid all white starchy things.

Now it seems that even that is an issue. Have you kept most of your weight off?
********* I've had 3 regains in 14 yrs. !. sugar and then 2. sugar (fruit that time) and then 3. sugar (fudge==the gateway drug). Do we see a pattern here? LOL Starches didn't make me gain. My normal wt is around 112, except when there is sugar. At the moment, the highest stress on earth has caused a slight drop in my wt (some stress makes you eat, then when it goes beyond that, turns off your wanter completely!), but I'm hoping I can reduce one stressor at a time here.

I have "The Pouch Rules" for Bypass Surgery and it says 3 meals w/ no snacking
********** um, well, I've never agreed with any of that concept. Ever. So, I don't practice it.

but with this I definately feel my body drop off after a while if I dont eat. However, I dont want to gain weight.
********* I alternate protein drinks and small meals. So, I do 30g protein in water x 6 per day, and 4 small meals, some way small, some more like a meal. I take my vites with meals and drink water between.

"THe rules also say that no liquid for 2-3 hours after meals,
********* which is crazy, IMHO. You can always tell when stuff has been written by ppl who do not actually live with a pouch.

which makes it hard to get all my water in abiding by that eating 4+ meals a day. How soon after meals do you drink
******** once the food is cleared, I drink. As long as there is a chance that I might drink & eat, no. But once I've cleared the table or walked away, then I drink. Usually about 15 minutes or so. And I dirnk normally up until I eat. I do not do the water load thing before eating. Makes no sense to me to stretch my pouch out so I can eat larger meals??? So, no, I just drink til I eat, if I'm thirsty. Or not. drinking WITH meals quadruples the volume of the meal, so it would defeat the whole purpose of my pouch!

b/c I know that the quick emptying of our stomachs is a big part of what leads to the hypoglycemia.
******** sometimes, yes. But you know, since I do what I do, like I said, I can directly link it to white things.

Hey Michelle: You replied: I alternate protein drinks and small meals. So, I do 30g protein in water x 6 per day, and 4 small meals, some way small, some more like a meal. I take my vites with meals and drink water between.********* What protein do you use? I have a hard time finding one I can hack. I usually make one protien shake a day (which I do really like) and then whatever is in my meals. The shake is about 130 calories so I dont like to do too many. I think I get about 70 to 80 grams a day which is probably a bit low.  I ususall drink 64 oz of water a day but I do load sometimes which I fear has stretched my pouch. Also, I got back in the habit quickly of chewing how I did before surgery, and not mashing the food to smithereeens which is probably not good either. I think I may have stretched the opening from the stomach to the intestines.  I have recently considered doing the protein thing for a few days but from hearing what  you have said I wonder if it would make the hypoglycemia worse. Take care and thanks for all of your insight! Maryann

I listed my protein faves below. I would say that if you go to all protein foods, and space out protein drink or food no further than 2 hrs apart, you might find that you have NO blood sugar issues. Something shoots the insulin into the sky, as in perhaps a piece of special french bread at a restaurant. Your body makes enough insulin to cover the whole LOAF! And then when there is not the resulting load to process, your sugar drops thru the floor. So, something has to spike before it drops. Now that I stopped the white carbs, it doesn't spike, so then no drop.

FRUIT doesn't work quite the same way, as long as it is fruit, not juice. I just had this discussion with my ND and fruit (as in intact) has lots of other nutrients in it, fiber, all the "unpronouncables" on the bottom of your multi vite, and so while it has fructose, it doesn't hit with a slam. I HAVE had dumping once or twie and have had weight gain, once. But that was TOO MUCH FRUIT. Not just "some".

However, the fructose in juices and high fructose corn syrup smack the pancreas in the same violent way, so cause the spike/drop to occur in many ppl.

Of course, I've never counted calories. If calories in/calories out actually worked, I'd have been thin on the first diet and we would not be here discussing this. So, I count protein g IN (from supps, never food), sugar g OUT, meal size and meal frequency. I drink protein usually just before meals (15-20 min) to take the edge off my appetite so I eat less. I'm a volume eater, so it leaves me less likely to over eat (I dont measure now). And then start drinking about 15 minutes after I've removed the plate until it's time to eat OR I just get an itch for another protein drink.

Fat and calories won't make me fat again. SUGAR and grazing will do it in a moment, even with my more radical surgery type. I do not malabsorb any sugar.

I counted my calories about a year ago, because I had idea how much I actually consumed. So, the protein drinks alone are about 900 and at that time, the food was around 900. Sugars for the day were minimal, since my fave protein is 0g, and so's the water I make it in. One of the others has 3g, but again, water 0g. And I was eating protein only food, which still has a few g sugars, but not enough to mess with my wt loss OR my blood sugar.

My surgeons still kind of believe in the calorie thing, but they are firm believers that fat is not an issue with us and sugar will always be. I do see them, more in passing than as an actual appt. As i get further and further out, I find myself needing to wear a sign that says "results not typical", because our program is completely opposite of most nutrition programs. And I suspect that might be why this morning I weighed 107, so a bit lower than my usual, but I think I said over the top stress has made my meals just a few bites.


Any of these are what I use:

1.) Champion ProScore 100 choco + 8 oz water + ice, blended (hand blender or Magic Bullet).
2.) Champion Pure Whey Stack choco + 6-8 oz water, shaken.
3.) IDS vanilla-cinnamon + "glop" of DaVinci sugar free caramel sauce + 8 oz water + ice, blended.
4.) the PWS chco + the van-cin (50/50) in about 10 oz ho****er, stirred or hand blender.

They deliver 30g protein, less than 3g sugar, less than 200 calories, when made with water.

Lately I've been adding a shake of cinnamon to my hot ones since cinnamon fights belly fat.

I always put 1 scoop of UpCal D powder in (500mg calcium citrate, 250 IU of vit D3).

Thanks again for the info. Oveall I have been feeling better since cracking down on what I am eating. My sugar seems to hover in the low 70's most of the time. When I take my reading around an hour or so after eating it is in the 80's which seems a little low but what do I know. Yesterday was the first day since Saturday that Ihad any kind of symptoms. I was out shopping and didnt eat much yesterday. I had a protein shake in the am, then eggs and not even a whole piece of whole grain toast at 10am. I didnt feel hungry really by the time I was leaving to go out shopping at 2 but I thought I'd better have something so I had another peice of whole grain bread toasted. By the time I got home at 4:30 I was getting hungry and felt like my sugar might start to drop. I was fearful of it dropping so I took a small bit of OJ and then ate a few sun chips w/ hummus. Then I went on to eat some left over broccoli rabe w/ LF chicken sausage. Before I was done eating I felt light headed so I took my sugar and it was 145, which I guess explained the lightheaded ness. Is that unusual since I didnt really have any refined white carbs? I really didnt have many carbs at all. I HATE feeling lightheaded. It makes me anxious, so for most of the night I was uneasy. I took my sugar again 2 hours later and it was back in the low 80's. I woke up in the middle of the night and almost had an anxiety attack thinking about this. In the wee hours everything seems worse. I guess I was upset b/c I thought I was doing everything right and I ended up having an episode, although it didnt drop really, it shot up. I get afraid that this is going to be uncontrolable and it scares me. I have had the low sugar thing for years. And as I said before, I expected it if I had crappy white carbs on an empty stomach. But now I feel it is more unpredictable and it is freaking me out. Also, I have just come to learn that  blood sugar swings are damaging to diabetics so I wonder if the effects are as severe with what I am experiencing. Besides, my energy is not terrible but it is not what it used to be either. I'm sorry for going on I just am a bit nervous about the randomness of this now and I'm sure taking my sugar all the time doesnt help either. I test in the low 70's most of the time and I end up feeling like I need to get it up before it goes below 70 but perhaps that is where it lies most of the time. Anyway, thanks for listening and all the advice. One more question, I have never been huge w/ protein supps. When I do use a supp, it is usually in place of breakfast. Do you think that could be one reason why my energy is not what it used to be too? (besides the low sugar.) I never thought about it until I saw how much you supp your protein. Thanks and take care!

I don't even do whole grain any more! And I never corrrect a swing with high sugar, like glucose tabs or OJ!

Yours might be fine at 70. My labs (fasting) almost always come back right around 83, so that must be my norm. I watched a friend "go down", as we say, and she had a meter with her and we watched her level go from HER norm of 120 to 101 in about 3 minutes! So, she was acting like you or I might at 50. AND we were in her endo's office when it happened! And why were we there? Because of her hypoglycemia!

Like I said, I never was able to trace it to anything until I went all protein a year ago to drop wt quickly. I thought I'd have swings with no carbs. I have done the 180g in supps for years (I have a radical distal RNY), so the change was in eating ONLY protein foods, animal sources. But I don't prefer animal sources, so much of mine was way low carb bars. And my discover of the whole white carb thing was months later. Still kinda new to me.

Thing is, if white carbs had been a cause all along, I'd have known, since I ate them every day (small portions). I've also read now that the more I didn't get, the more sensitive I became. It certainly holds true for me, but of course, I can't state that as a scientific fact!

I think my last crash was around Christmas. It gets easier to resist carbs when I feel so much better without. When I reach for something, I just remind me how miserable I'll be in 2-3 hours! LOL

Side-bonus, while they never made me gain wt (only sugar as sugar did), I'm holding steady at bottom of my wt range.

Hey Michelle You said "And I never corrrect a swing with high sugar, like glucose tabs or OJ!" Why not? And how do you correct a swing? Why do you not eat whole grains? They are supposed to digest slowly and not cause big swings. Have they given you problems too? I've done what your friend has done. I've gotten the shakes and really hungry and when I checked my sugar it was 80'sor 90's. I do think it is the rate that it falls that makes a huge difference in the way you feel. "so the change was in eating ONLY protein foods, animal sources. But I don't prefer animal sources, so much of mine was way low carb bars. And my discover of the whole white carb thing was months later. Still kinda new to me. " *******So just so I understand, before the diet to drop the weight quickly, you ate small amounts of white carbs and sometimes sugar. Did you have hypo issues then too? Then you went all protein for your diet but ate mostly bars and when you tried to integrate carbs back into your diet your reactions were worse? I guess that could be b/c after being without them for a period, your body kind for forgets how to process them. thanks again and take care! Maryann

I'm writing in your post below:

You said "And I never corrrect a swing with high sugar, like glucose tabs or OJ!"

Why not? And how do you correct a swing?
********** because it will just put me on another roller coaster. Insulin goes up to handle the sudden sugar and then BS goes down.


Why do you not eat whole grains? They are supposed to digest slowly and not cause big swings. Have they given you problems too?
*********** I know! I've told ppl for years to be sure to get nuts, seeds, grains. I had trouble ONCE, so I'm still finding my way. I will eventually try rye bread, for example. One piece of sourdough was ok. As much as I WANT? Nope, bad thing. LOL


I've done what your friend has done. I've gotten the shakes and really hungry and when I checked my sugar it was 80'sor 90's. I do think it is the rate that it falls that makes a huge difference in the way you feel.
*********** when it drops like a stone, it's like your brain was left up there in the clouds and simply does not work.

"so the change was in eating ONLY protein foods, animal sources. But I don't prefer animal sources, so much of mine was way low carb bars. And my discover of the whole white carb thing was months later. Still kinda new to me. " *******So just so I understand, before the diet to drop the weight quickly, you ate small amounts of white carbs and sometimes sugar.
********** I always had any carbs EXCEPT direct sugar with my meal. One of my snacks was maybe 6-8 potato chips (the thick, crispy kind) with cottage cheese, as a dip, for example. But usually, a small baked potato with meat, veggie. Your usual concept of a balanced meal.



Did you have hypo issues then too?
*********** started about 20 months out. Had not yet toyed with any sugars. And, of course, can't look back as far as 1995 to see what I ate, but I really like bread. So, I would thinking nothing of having a loaf of garlic bread or french bread with dinner. If I didn't LIKE the meat (don't much like meat at all), then it might be 2 pieces of bread, few bites of meat. BUT I can't go back and find out

Then you went all protein for your diet but ate mostly bars and when you tried to integrate carbs back into your diet your reactions were worse?
********* well, it was more obviously cause and effect. Hard to believe, but since fat won't make us fat again, my usual on the run lunch was "Happy Cheese with a diet". So, I'd eat half a cheeseburger, about half the fries. There was about a 6month period in maybe 2002 when that would put me to sleep, like dumping, not the hypo. Really weird. I'd have to pull over in the parking lot to sleep it off. ????

But I could go 4-5 months with no reaction, and yet, having bread or potaoes frequently.

but yes, after the sort of "purification" (LOL!), then when I crossed from veggies and fruit to bread, BLAM!

I guess that could be b/c after being without them for a period, your body kind for forgets how to process them.
********* or, maybe it knows they are bad? As I said, I couldn't have put them in that catergory, because they didn't change my wt at all. But any toying sugar in the form of sugar and my pants got snug within 2 wks!

I'm still trying to figure out how a year ago I could eat a donut. WHAT? I had fallen SO FAR INTO the sugar vat that there was no climbing out. I mean, WHAT WAS I THINKING? I never even LIKED donuts! That was about the time I had to shake me by the back of the neck and slap me around. I wouldn't let anyone I cared about do that! 13#. Not much by some stds, but more than 10% of me and almost 10% of what I lost!

I have often said, lost 150, none have found their way back. I can only say that if I remain sugar free. Otherwise, any grain of sugar is like leaving bread crumbs so they can find me again! 3 times they've hunted me down and jumped on board. Just not all 150

Hey Michelle:

How have you been doing with your blood sugar. I have been doing much better but I have felt symptoms a couple of time over the past few weeks without any real bad carbs. I have upped my protein intake and have tried to only have good carbs but had a moderate reaction once after eating 1.5 slices of ezekiel bread w/ tuna and some sun chips, and the other day after having a protien shake, eggs at noon, protein pretzels, a piece of high protein, high fiber and low sugar brownie and meatloaf with a bit of mashed potatoes. Two hours after dinner I had a very slight sugar reaction so I immediately ate protein to ward it off and it did. Infact, I feel a bit of one now after eating ham and bean soup at 2:30 and a some protein drink at 4:30 followed by a glass of V8 at 5:15. It is slight with no shaking yet but I need to eat. I dont understand when I have been much better about my food choices. Anyway, hope you are doing well and if you can pass along any tidbits from your nutruitionist that would be great. I see my surgeon on Friday and I am scared he is going to ream me out for eating refined sugar over the past 3 years and alcohol, which I dont any more. I'm also afraid of not getting this under control.  Thanks for listening and take care! Maryann

I'm a lot cleaner than that now! AS I said, while I ate chs brgr with fries almost daily for years, with no issues, cannot do bread now. I'd be dead with the 1.5 pc of Ez bread. I know it's better, but I wouldn't push past .5 pc now. And potatoes? 2 bites max. 3 bites is too many. Don't trust any chips any more. Never liked pretzels.

But you're eating more carbs in a meal than I get a in a day. But I'm just REALLY determined not to feel like that. Sadly, the longer I go, I suspect, the more sensitive to any I become. But I haven't had issues for months now.

The other night at a special restaurant, I had a bite of potato skin (bad--0wanted the whole plate!), 1 bite baked. Was planning corn muffin, but spicy, so I didn't. Maybe I coulda had the whole skin, I dunno. But I didn't crash. The "was it worth it part" is 3 hours later when the crash does NOT happen.

I thought I was happier with bread and potatoes as my mainstay, but then I never figured out where and when I would crash. This may take a few extra steps, but I can't have the crash at 3am when I'm too groggy to even tell my dh what's wrong, KWIM?

Soooooooooo, as much as I'm only disciplined about what goes in (protein, water, vites), and never have been overly so about what does not, I am now. LOL

And I think each person has to find out what exactly your "line" is. I know that Mayo has removed hunks of pancreas of many... 20? and yet, they are still overproducing insulin in response to any carb. I can eat fruit or veggie. It's the white stuff I have to avoid.

My top foods:
bread
potatoes
rice
pasta
>>>>>>>> anything butter will melt on!