Weight loss-Learn it the first time -discussion

Good Morning, Graduates, I have an important topic that I hope we can get a good discussion going about.  I am three years out, and have spent over two years reading and posting occasionally on this board.  I am always interested in the posts about regain, especially regain of amounts over 10 pounds.   In no way do I wish to offend or hurt the feelings of anyone who has regained any weight.  But I have always wondered how it got to be 20-30 pounds.  I am a daily weigher.  I do not let my clothes tell me if I have gained, because I know I would be able to fool myself.  I would just tell myself that it was a little water gain, or the day was hot, or whatever.  My scale doesn't lie to me, I would.  If my scale tells me I am up 4-5 pounds, I cut back immediately on my food intake, and do my own 5DPT of only proteins until the scale moves down again. So, back to the subject title, to those of you who have just reached your goal, in order to stay at goal *in my opinion*, you have to always remember what got you there.  You have to have learned how to lose weight, meaning eating according to the rules of our pouches, bands, etc. the first time.  If you didn't learn the rules, and I mean REALLY learn them, then you are going to regain and have to keep going back over and over the same pounds.  There is no magic way of the pouch.  It won't keep the weight off, you will. I feel I have been as successful at keeping my weight off by never forgetting those rules.  Protein, protein, protein.  Water.  Keep away from the simple, white, bad carbs.  Period.  I can't have my chips and eat them too, and not expect to see weight come back on.   I am far from perfect.  I ate a donut yesterday, stupid, having a bad day,  and today I will compensate for that. The way to keep from regainging weight.  Don't buy the junk food.  If it ain't in your house, you can't eat it.  There are days when I am at the grocery store where I walk down the chips aisle, the ice cream aisle, the cookies aisle.  I pick up packages, and read them.  I want them so badly, but I put them back.  I know for a fact if I buy them, I will eat them.  It is reading the labels first that make me put them back.  The calorie amounts, the fat grams, the carbs.  It is hard, I want them.  But I don't want the 220 pounds to come back.  They always did before.  This time I learned the rules the first time. A second piece of advice, get rid of the too large clothes.  The moment you keep them stored away, you just gave yourself permission to regain weight.  If they are too big, give them to someone else who can use them.  If your clothes are getting too small, then you only have two  choices, lose weight or buy new clothes.  I don't have the money to buy new big clothes.  Therefore, the weight must come off so I can wear what I already have.  I don't keep bigger clothes in the house. Let's talk about this, Debra M. 351/132

As someone who had a sizable regain (70lbs), I can tell you we aren't deluding ourselves.  Or, at least I wasn't. Of course, I had medical reason for my gain (as do alot of people who have regain).  I had two babies.  Post-op pregnancies require an increase of carbs to keep the body from ketosis which is very detrimental to the brain of a fetus. Not everything is as black and white about "forgetting" the rules.

Amen!! What has amazed me is the attitude of people that are potential weight loss surgery patients.  Pre-surgery.   The old saying about support groups is:  "take what you need and leave the rest".  Sometimes when you don't want to attend a group meeting it is because you don't think you need anything but in reality you just might say something that someone else needs. All that being said for this...I have stopped going to our local support group meetings because of the attitude of pre-op patients.  They ask the questions but don't want the answers.  They are so busy trying to manipulate the eating requirements I am amazed they remain approved for surgery.  They ask specific questions, we give them specific answers to which they reply, "oh, I can't do that". I am so appreciative of the fact that my Blue Cross paid for my RNY that I plan to do everything I can to NOT ever gain the weight back.  Occasionally I go and get out my old post op eating plan for the 6 weeks or so immediatly after surgery and review the simple eating.   I stopped going to the meetings because it disgusted me at the abuse of the tool these people have been given.  I am really afraid of what I might say to someone that is manipulating the plan.  You said what I have been feeling all along. Thanks.

I agree with all that you have said.  I can't argue with you.  I would have to say that stress is the biggest hurdle of all for me.  I have reverted back to my old ways of handling stress.  Like you, for a season, I was able to keep my head and actions in line with rules of WLS weight loss and maintenance.  However, a few stressful life events caused a series of what you called "bad days".  The bad days turned into bad choices, the bad choices turned in to bad consequences.  The bad consequences turned into not wanting to face the reality of the scale. 

Granted, as an adult, we all have to face the music of our actions, no matter how the actions were started.  So... the long and short  of  it is, if you can ... never steer away from the rules.  However, if you do... try and regroup quickly.

They operated on my stomach and not  my head.  I have allowed life's obstacles and the comfort of old habits to take me off course.  I take solace in one thing, however.  My pouch is still there as are the rules.  Jumping back on the bandwagon will result in the right consequences, which is where I am today.

Thanks for this thoughtful post.  No offense taken.  It's  just reality.

Denise

I agree both with you and andrea. yes when you stop living the rules the weight is going to come back, but often times there are also medical reasons. I'm taking medications that are known to specifically cause weight gain, but I need them. So between that AND getting a little complacent I have gained back 35 lbs.. and it wasn't like  I woke up one day and realized I gained 35 lbs, I noticed the first 2 lbs, then 3 lbs then OH MY GOSH 10 lbs!! That was my "freak out point"...so how did the scale CONTINUE to raise? I literally starved myself and did the "hollywood miracle diet" for 2 days just to lose 10 lbs to fit into my wedding dress, as I had somehow managed to gain 10 lbs from my measurements 2 months prior.. HOW? I was never "ok" with it.. and if getting married isn't motivation then i was afraid I would never have the motivation to do what it took, and that concerned me. For me I kept trying to do atkins, or some "miracle" thing.. the same dieting mentality that got me to 380 lbs to begin with! So between my medications, and trying DESPERATELY to lose the weight FAST I ended up doing major yo yo dieting, just like before. Till finally something prompted me to get on this website..and a miracle happened. it's been a few weeks and the changes in my life have been HUGE. I read the "ten mistakes that lead to regain" and realized I was guilty of ALL of them!! It's like a frog in water, it was a very gradual process till finally  I was being boiled alive!  For the first time in a long time I don't feel "desperate", I feel committed, to workout and follow the rules and I come here for support.

I also like what you said about the cloths thing. When I got engaged my mother in law bought me $1,700 worth of new cloths!! LITERALLY a whole new wardrobe, I threw EVERYTHING else out. that was last september... right now I'm only wearing half of them, cause some just don't "look right" cause they're snug. and it reality hit me.. "what happens when the last few cloths that now fit, no longer fit.. I can't afford a whole new wardrobe, and I threw everything else out"  It was a HUGE eye opener and motivation, I mean who wants to walk around nake? It's partly what got me on this website..because I needed "obesity help!".

Anyway. I will never be the "I lost all my weight and kept it off!" story. But if I'm the "I lost a lot of my weight, then started gaining, and then on my own with the help of the tool, I lost 80 more lbs! And have now maintained that for 7 years" or something. I mean, that's a pretty cool story too. BUT I REFUSE to be the "I lost a lot of weight and gained it all back" story.... Surgery was the "last chance" sort of thing..if this doesn't work.. if this fails, or rather, if I fail IT...then I'm outa luck... i already tried EVERYTHING before surgery, there's nothing left to try. I MUST follow the rules, use my tool, and work my butt off (literally).

WOW I said a mouth full!

Leslee

Thank you for your thoughtful response.  I do think that none of this is easy.  It is a daily struggle for me to keep to the rules, and I don't always do it.  At 53, I have a fairly long lifetime of eating for comfort and using it to cope with stress.  I was a morbidly obese child, so I should have a graduate degree in all the ways to use food.  After my father died very suddenly eighteen months ago, I was grieving terribly.  I had just reached my goal weight, and I wanted to overeat so badly.  It was so scary to me, how much I wanted food to dull the pain.  Instead, I did the opposite, and relied on protein to get me through the days that followed.  I know that sounds weird, but I was afraid if I started eating the comfort foods, that I just wouldn't stop.  Ever.  The same thing happened a year ago when my mother was in the hospital for five weeks.  I chose to bring protein powder with me to make drinks during the endless days of sitting by her bedside at the hospital.  The food in the hospital cafeteria wasn't a good choice, so I went back to what is familiar to me.  I brought almonds, jerkey, etc. to snack on during that time. I don't want to sound critical.  I think life can be really harsh and demanding at times.  Lots of times.  We still have to remember what got us to where we are. I think having babies after WLS is a completely different story with regain.  A pregnant woman must eat and nourish her growing baby.  Virtually every woman I know who has been pregnant has baby weight to lose after birth, and I mean thin, normal weight, and every one in between.   But, one still has to go back to remembering how one lost the weight postop originally.  I can only laugh at myself, I had my babies as a morbidly obese woman.  I did NOT have baby weight to lose afterbirth, as I only weighed slightly more post pregnancy than before.  Yet, I managed to gain fifty pounds after the birth of each daughter.  I was trying to produce chocolate milk for them while nursing.  I consumed huge amounts of Hershey's Kisses while nursing.  It just added 100 pounds of baby weight I needed to lose after the RNY, lol.  I can only imagine what it would be like with pregnancy and WLS, I think it would be difficult, and I hope you are successful with your weight loss. Please accept that this is not meant to be flaming anyone who has regained, but trying to understand how to prevent it in the first place, and help people new to goal. Debra M.

I also had a post op baby and gained around 50lbs.  My dr only wanted me to gain 30 but............ I lost around 30 really easily but the last 20 has been really hard.  And to make matters worse I wanted to lose about 30 more before I got pg.  So that makes about 50 I would LOVE to lose to get to goal weight.  if food just wasnt so damn good.  lol lol  It is a daily thing that has to be watched though.  And someone that has NEVER had a weight prob just doesnt get it!  I do keep the junk food out of my house but it sure is easy to run through and get some junk food at work or the damn snack machine.  Weight control is just constant control thing.  It's great if you have not had the prob of gaining more than a few lbs but in my opinion it was worth every bit of 30lbs to been blessed with my daughter.  WLS GAVE me that BLESSING.  Now I just have to GET IT OFF!!!!! lol lol Denise

I think that you are approaching morbid obesity as if it is a mental health issue vs a physical (and fatal) disease. That makes a huge difference in approach and attitude.

For some ppl, mechanical break down is the reason, and most docs do not acknowledge that THEIR surgery could have mechanics issues, which is why other docs do a brisk business in fixing mechanical defects. And the proof is in the puddgin with these victims, because with a working surgery, they are down to a reasonable wt for their range.

True, there are ppl with eating disorders. But they are only about 10% of us. There are ppl *****spond the physical disorder in what appears to be mental health crazy ways. The best example is PICA, which is the crunching of ice and dirt due to iron deficiency. Physical means makes ppl do crazy things and it even seems crazy to them. But many nutritional issues will present as "crazy" issues. Once a person thinks they are weak or nuts, they have a uch harder time hunting down the real reason they cannot resist M*M's but can resist other candies (it's about the texture, not about the sugar).

A relaxed stoma really sends ppl into crazy land. "What? I can even out eat surgery? I must be a real nut case, unworthy to participae in live or on line support groups".

I encourage ppl to seek help for mechanical issues ASAP. And work on whatever eating behaviors they have adapted to. Often times, the "bad" eating habits are what was taught as a part of their program. When ppl say they are non-compliant, I often wonder to what? Some are what I call the auto-regain program, teaching things that will ultimate lead to wt gain, all the while adhering carefully to a plan developed for ppl who do not have the physical portion of our disease.

I'll be interested in the responses. My own regains were:
1. mechanical failure 5 yrs. (fixed)
2. stupidity with sugar 5.5 yrs
3. see #2 at 8 yrs
4. see #3 at 11 yrs

I fixed them all with the tool for the job. But not everyone has the opportunity for such a large overview as I do, and might not be able to grasp the problem based on symptoms.

I guess I don't think about morbid obesity as an "either,or" situation, but rather a comibination of mental health isses and a physical disease.  I feel the surgery primarily took care of a significant portion of the physical aspect of my disease.  A small pouch, rerouted intestine, and the resultant hormonal changes to the gastrointestinal system(reduce ghrelin, for example) have allowed me to lose much of the weight.  I don't think I have been able to express my thoughts well when I said either learn what you need to know in order to succeed the first time, or you will keep repeating the putting on the pounds to try getting them off again.  Yes, it is critical to know if there has been a mechanical reason for the pouch to fail.  I do wonder what the statistics are as to how common this is, especially for newer surgeries as compared to those over ten years ago.  I don't think one should assume they've stretched their stoma until they have had it evaluated by a doctor.  Then, if there is a failure of the surgery, hopefully there can be a surgical correction or revision.  And, as I said before, pregnancy is an entirely different matter. I think I am wanting to discuss the regain that results from people changing back to their old eating patterns.  I guess that is the mental health aspect of the game.  Strategies to cope with stress and food as comfort.  The idea that we can eat anything we want, just less of it, due to our small pouches.  I felt I learned for the first time in my life after a lifetime of dieting, that this wasn't a diet.  It truly is the way I have to eat forever, even if I want to eat my old foods of comfort.  Debra M.

Some people just rebell against rules. I've heard it time and time again, if you are not compliant, you will gain weight back. If you refuse to follow the rules, you will gain weight back. Some people won't follow the rules no matter what. They're looking for an option as soon as you give them a rule. They look for excuses NOT to follow the rules. For every excuse, there is a path around it, back to the rules but the lazy gene in the human species has us looking for the easiest path...Human nature. Some people do not want to be addicted to the scale and refuse to weigh every day or every other day or every week. Obsession is just another form of addiction to them and they will not have any of it. I have been wearing size 0 jeans, size 2 jeans, size 4 jeans (depending on the time of the month and the manufacturer). I bought a bunch of size 6 jeans because I thought I was done. They're very small compared to the 2X clothes I used to wear and the single pair size 26 jeans I still own for comparison. I'm keeping the size 6 jeans at least for a while. Because my ultimate goal is to gain alittle weight. I'm under weight and I know it and it's a mental issue with me as real as anorexia/bulimia is. I know the option to buy bigger clothes is always there. I buy my clothes at Goodwill so that's not a deterent at all. My closet is full and my husband had to build another closet for his clothes.. Still no deterent. The problem is the surgery was on our mid-section and not our brain. You can't change an addiction even if you totally re-arrange my innards. It's a constant mental fight because and addiction is an addiction...whether it's food or heroin or sugar or white carbs. The single difference is that heroin use isn't needed, you can quit that completely. Food you must eat or you die. The difference is control.