Vegetarian on DS? And questions about gas/diarrhea.

Hi Girly!!!

I met Dr. P when I was in the hospital.  Great guy!  But I think their whole team, lead by the GREAT Dr. Garth is slightly askewed to the the vegan side of life.  I don't think there's anything wrong with it, but because of our type of malabsorption...  I don't think it's safe.  I definitely eat way more fruits and veggies than when I was just sleeved.  My sleeve nut told me no fruits and limited veggies until I reached goal...  So I understand his approach, but we need more than just tofu and lettuce or you are guaranteed to become deficient in everything under the sun!

I took their diet recommendations to incorporate veggies and supplemented it with chicken, beef, pork, fish, and turkey..  LOL!  Even their list of vitamins was a joke.  Dr Davis and his staff are skilled with a knife, but I'd leave it at that.  They really do not understand the long-term nutritional needs of a DSer.  In my opinion...  that was fine with me.  There are enough people before me who have been successful and I have modified my diet to work with my body.  Same goes for my vitamins. 

The foods that cause me the most gas are carbs and anything containing gluten.  Complex carbs, not so much.  I enjoy a small sweet potato about once a month and it's never given me any problems.  Haven't tried a regular potato yet, but I'm sure it'll give me gas.  lol! 

The vitamins Davis Clinic suggests are the Bariatric Advantage ADEK-multi, B-complex, Calcium, and Iron.  This is nowhere near enough!!!  You need to be taking separate A, D, E, K....  among other things.  The levels we need their nutritionist says is toxic.  But the ones we need a lot of we malabsorb because those are fat soluble nutrients.  Because DSers malabsorb fats, we are also malabsorbing those vitamins...  so we increase the dose to be able to account for what we don't absorb.  Hope that made sense.  =)

Good luck and keep asking questions!!!  You know where to find me.  =) 

 

I don't know this doc at all.  How many DS's has he done?  Technically, you are a revision but an easy one because there is no take down of a previous surgery.

The diet thing is very debatable.  It's tough enough getting in your protein.  It would be even more difficult with his restrictions.  This is not a normal DS diet.  This is this docs personal preference/belief.  I can tell you for sure there is no surgical reason why you should avoid meat of any kind post-op.  That said I have heard of DSers over the years who tried vegetarianism.  Most went back because it's real work but I'm sure there are still a few out there.  Really, the DS was made for meat eaters.  Meat is like a free food for us.  Meat and fat, to be exact.

Read here and you will learn a lot.  Foods that cause problems are discussed all the time.  I and many others can eat anything.  But there are some who have real problems with white flour and milk products.  The DS is a YMMV surgery.  Supplements, and lots of them, are a big part of our lives.  And they are not optional.  It's a lot more involved than popping a Flintstone every day.  Look up Vitalady's DS regime.  It's a good place to start but you will always be tweaking something to improve your labs.  You will be taking supplements several times a day for the rest of your life.

Truth be told, you could always just get the surgery done and then eat as you please to keep up your labs.  A surgeon is a cutter and after you recover his job is pretty much done.  But my best recommendation to you is to get another opinion from a doc with hundreds or thousands of DS surgeries under his belt.  Did he discuss the important stuff like Common Channel length?

Also, remember what is "healthy" for a normy is not healthy for a DSer.  We eat lots of fat (butter, well marbled meats), you know the "bad stuff".  My cholesterol, which has been very high since I was a preteen (damn genes), is now normal for the first time in my life and I'm not on any cholesterol meds.

I forgot to add...  For UHC, all bariatric surgeons are considered out-of-network.  Once the surgeon's office submits the info to UHC for approval, they should approve it as in-network.  So don't limit yourself.  Contact the surgeon's office and ask if they accept UHC.  If that's the case, then check them out! 

As much as I love Dr. Davis and his staff...  they are freaking me out a bit with all the vegetarianism...  =)

Oh...  and your bariatric coordinator sucks monkey butt!  =)

My DS surgeon told me straight out he would not perform the DS on me if I was a vegetarian. He also strongly suggests beef tenderloin and pork tenderloin, both of which I love.

I cant comment on your surgeon's surgery experience, but his nutritional guidance tells me he has lots to learn. I would look elsewhere.

You've gotten a lot of excellent advice from the above posters. Take it to heart. Good luck!

Understand that this is coming from someone who had been vegetarian at times, and MAY be again with a DS, but I'm currently eating meat and dairy because it would be a huge commitment to get enough protein without animal sources. I think it's possible to have a DS as a vegetarian, but not vegan. Do I think it's advisable or wise? No. 

I hear alarms when I read your surgeon recommends a veggie diet, and don't feel like he understands our needs. We eat so much protein because we don't absorb a lot of it. We have to have to take in extra, from superior sources to make sure we just uptake the minimums. So, if I choose to go back to a vegetarian diet, it will be for ethical reasons, and when I know I can spend significant time and effort making sure I eat enough quality protein to maintain, not because a misguided doctor knows it's best for normies.

You can add me to the list of DSers who disagree with Dr. Primono's diet.  I, personally, will not recommend the DS to vegetarians.  I've spoken with a few people who were considering the DS.  Only one was a vegetarian, and I told her that it wasn't going to work for her (she was almost vegan).  I've seen a few successful "vegetarian" DSers (because to me, vegetarians do not eat anything with fins, feathers, or fur), but they had a harder time doing it and relied on a lot of dairy and protein shakes.  Many DSers become lactose intolerant post-op.  It would be a hell of a thing to count on eating lots of dairy products only to become lactose intolerant later.   Pescatarians have it a little easier than strict vegetarians, but unless you love seafood (and can afford it!), you're limiting yourself in a big way.  Vegetable protein is not nearly as bioavailable as animal protein, and it comes packaged in a lot of bulky insoluble fiber that takes up a lot of room in a very small stomach.  Whole grains make me bloated and gassy when eaten in quantity.  Why put yourself through that misery?

I think you might want to really consider what your future eating habits are going to be before you choose this surgery.  If you already aren't crazy about meat, I worry about what you may be setting yourself up for down the road.  Protein malnutrition is horribly painful and ugly.  The people with the best results are the people who choose their surgery by matching its diet to their own eating habits and preferences.  I'm a carnivore by nature, who loves sweets - but I'd rather have one small piece of the best "real" cheesecake than a whole "low-fat, sugar free" artificially flavored and colored cheesecake.  The DS didn't make me completely change my eating habits.  If Dr. Primono's diet sounds appealing to you, then you may actually be better served by a DS with a  long common channel, or a medial or distal RNY.  It's something to look at.

Good luck with your decision.

Everyone is right here.  I am a clean eater.  I cannot imagine trying to be a vegetarian with a DS.  I lived as a Vegan many years ago for a time of my life.  I eat a lot more fish than most DS'rs do.  My body goes through phases that it wants steak, fish or chicken.  I know that I have to have it.  I eat a salad a couple of times a week is all.  It takes 2 hours, and I always have something on it (chicken or fish).  I cannot eat beans or legumes.  Our bodies need complete protein.

 

 

All whole grains, beans, & legumes gives me gas.  Some of these things gives me painful bloating + gas.  I agree with Val.  You're thinking in terms of vegetarian sources and compatibility, or perhaps "doability" would be a good term.  If you are one of the majority, these things will give you gas to some degree.  How much is individual.  I was really active on this forum for about three years and I believe I only ran into less than 5 people who absolutely swore they could eat absolutely whatever they wanted, including whole grains, beans, & legumes, with no bloat, cramps, or gas. 

Hi pippin,  

I remember you we had our Sleeves about a month apart.  I regret getting the Sleeve, I needed more than restriction.  So now I'm going to see if Dr. Steward in Denton, Texas will do the 2nd part of the DS (Switch).  BCBS Federal will not even cover a revision because I was not in compliance with the eating and exercise.  Insurance wants my BMI to be greater than 50 for the DS.  I'm going to have to self pay.

We will be on this journey together again.  Best wishes to you pippin.  Stick with this forum, there are so many nice people here that are knowledgeable.

 

Babygirlinokc

Virgie