So, what DO you eat ?

This is going to be way too long, but - - -

I am just a few weeks away from GB. 

I am not trying to be negative here - - - just itemizing some of the issues with which I am still struggle.  Hoping someone can help with the first one.  ( I know nobody can help with the others - - - there is no answer. )


*****************
One
*****************
If I understand Kaiser correctly, these are the things I should never eat again after the initial stage of post surgical recovery.  ( The purpose being to avoid complications which can arise years after surgery and to

Anything you don't have to chew  - due to weigh gain / no weight loss from soft calorie syndrome
   ( Soup, Yogurt, cottage cheese, pudding, etc. )

Anything that generally causes gas
  ( Beans and peas, cruciform veggies (cauliflower, broccoli, cabbage, brussel sprouts, etc.), radishes & turnips, onions, nuts, dairy for the lactose intolerant, etc. )

Small hard things
  ( anything containing nuts or seeds, strawberries, blueberries, some SF jams, etc. )

Things with more than 5 grams of sugar per serving
  ( Too much to even mention here, including most fruits, beets, . )

High to medium fat foods - anything with more than 35 calories of fat per serving
  ( Ham, roast beef, anything fried, pork chops, dark poultry meat, butter, oil, fatted cheese, probably eggs, etc. )

Things that may be constipating
  ( hard cheeses - low fat or not )

Certain specific fruits and vegetables, most fruit juice )
  ( Oranges, grapefruit, orange juice, grapefruit juice, corn, celery- - - )

Anything made with white flour
  ( crackers, bread, Sugar free deserts like cookies, cakes, pies, etc )

Don't know what to call this category
  ( pasta, rice, oatmeal, cold cereal, untoasted bread, anything made with white flour, soft tortilla’s, any kind of chip, pretzel,  popcorn, etc. )

Anything carbonated

Anything containing caffeine
  ( coffee, tea, energy drinks, chocolate, etc. )

Anything containing alcohol.

Miscellaneous
  ( gum, some pills, some medications)

-----------------------------------------------

So, in my mind, that leaves

  White poultry meat
  Some fish ( which I hate )
  A few cuts of beef or pork ( Which I don't eat anyway )
  Whole wheat bread - toasted
  almost no brands of crackers,
  some sugar free jams,
  cream of wheat,
  egg substitute,
  soft low fat cheese.
  Hard tortillas
  lettuce,
  green peppers, 
  tomatoes with the seeds removed,
  tomato sauce & SF ketchup,
  potatoes,
  tiny bit of low fat margarine, salad dressing, quick spray of cooking oil on pan

Anyone have any other ideas ? 

  What makes me think I can stick to this diet after surgery if I can't stick to a less restrictive one before surgery ?  Yeah - - - you have to eat less - - - at first - - - but the doctor tells me the hunger returns about a year out, on average.

***************************
Two
***************************
  What happens if, at some time in the future I have some condition that requires medications on the list of those I can't take, or I have something like gout that takes the whole grains and protien off the list too ?

**************************
Three
**************************
  What happens to all these GB patients if they end up in convalecent care or are in some situation where they don't have a choice or say in what food is available to them ?  COPD.  People with some more advanced types of COPD often need 2000 calories a day just to maintain their weight - - - but they must eat calorie dense foods to get those calories because they cannot eat so much that their stomach pushes on their lungs.  Stuff like that.

*************************
Four
*************************
I am also really stuggling with the idea that a few years down the road, this surgery will be viewed the same way that having all your teeth pulled at the age of 18 or eraly 20's ( something they used to do back in the fifties and earlier )  is viewed today - - - namely - - - a bad idea that a lot of people were subjected to.

**************************
Five
**************************
And, of course, complications that make my life worse than it is now.  ( It's not too bad now - - - can walk miles, no medications, normal BP, normal blood sugar, normal to low cholesterol, some arthritis. )
 

BUT - - -

At the same time, I have a friend who has had the surgery, had struggles the first year, but is now at normal weight for her height after losing 100 lbs.  But - - - she eats most of the foods on the list Kaiser says not to eat.  She did not have her surgery at Kaiser.  However, she is eating some things even her doctor told her not to eat.   The question is, will she end up in the hospital some time in the future because of that ?

 

First of all, throw all those what if's out the window.  You are worrying about things that are not necessary.  That is not something you need to worry about.

I just got out of the hospital 3 weeks ago, and I ordered my own food.  High protein. low carb, and yogurt too.  According to what your list is, what the hell can you eat?  Seems like it will be a small list.  I don't follow any list.  I eat high protein low carb foods.  I stay away from sugars as best I can, I do watch sugars and carbs.  Remember carbs turn into sugars.  So that part they are correct about, keep the sugar level down, and your carb count. I do not eat pastas, breads, rice, or any of those type of carbs.  You are not to eat anything that will expand in your stomach.  I am of course assuming you are having RNY surgery.  Maybe before I go on any further, what kind of surgery are you having done?  That will change my answer

Diane

Hi Kathie, I am a Kaiser patient as well. I have never been given anything that said I couldn't eat most of what you have listed. My first 3 weeks was pureed cream soups, protein shakes, pudding and cottage cheese. After that I started slowly introducing new foods to my diet, including refried beans, lean hamburger, milk (I never became lactose intolerant, thank goodness!). I eat all sorts of veggies including the ones on your list. I eat fruits and nuts, but was told no citrus fruits for 12 months ( I am currently 15 moths post-op).  Lettuce has no real nutritional value and fills us up so nothing else fits in our pouch. I eat tomatoes, seeds and all.

Regarding sugar, I generally try to stay under 10 grams of sugar to avoid dumping syndrome. I have had small pieces of ham, roast beef, I don’t fry or buy fried foods…ever. I eat both white and dark meat poultry. It just depends on what I’m in the mood for and what’s available. I have yet to try most pork products. I use butter on occasion, olive oil all the time (it’s a good fat), I eat regular cheese and eggs. We don’t really absorb much fat for it to male a difference. I try to stay away from carbs as much as possible, but I do have an occasional piece of wheat toast with I Can’t Believe it’s Not Butter or peanut butter.

I don’t do pasta or rice. I have potatoes once in a while. I rarely have fruit juices because they have more sugar than anything else. I eat cold cereal, oatmeal and cream of wheat. I try to stay away from chips, pretzels and popcorn. Soft bread can become gummy in our pouches and block the stoma. It can hurt like hell until you get rid of it (I know this from my one and only experience with it). Soft tortillas can do the same thing.

I have heard conflicting things about carbonation. Whether it can or can’t expand our pouches, cause painful gas or cause ulcers in our pouch, I stay away from it. That’s my personal choice. Anything with caffeine needs to be taken into account with you water intake. If you have ice tea, you need to drink extra water to make up for the fact that caffeine can dehydrate you. My doctor said no alcohol for 12 months. No biggie for me as I wasn't’t a big drinker prior to surgery.

Gum? Some surgeons don’t want their patients to chew gun because if it accidentally gets swallowed it can plug the stoma. I don’t chew gum because I have braces.

Medications? Anything with Motrin/Ibuprofen like Advil, Midol, Pamprin, etc. can damage our pouches. Antibiotics like Erythromycin and Tetracycline can also damage the pouch. Celebrex and Vioxx (arthritis medications) can damage our pouch.

What you need to do is let any doctor that you see in the future know that you had gastric bypass surgery and make them aware of what meds you can and cannot have.

Regarding your questions about future medical problems, no one has those answers. All I can advise you to do is keep up the communication with you primary care physician and surgeon.

I wish you much success on your weightloss journey.

~Katt~

I am a Kaiser Fontana WLS patient also.  I have eaten and do eat anything that I have a mind to and I keep in mind excess calories regarding simple carbs and bad fats.  I have had 2 episodes of dumping syndrome, one yesterday...I will not eat a Weiner******zl corndog again..lol   Oh wait, I ate 2 !!   No wonder I was sick to my "pouch"!  The other is a Poptart (4 months ago)  it didn't agree with me. I drink soda when I feel like some, I drink caffine and ADD in extra water throughout the day.  At almost a year out I still eat approx. 4 oz of food at a sitting.  I graze and pick at things just like a pre-WLS person.  Nothing has changed except my portion control and even that can be hazardous if I stray away from "better choices".  I am sooooo happy I chose RNY...I like the physical need to stop at a certain point.  I waited the proper time frame to ADD new choices to my eating "list"  You might have issues, you might not...not all WLS post-ops are the same.  I also chew gum everyday and I use a straw..I just sip thru it slowly...NO gulping..EVER.
Best Wishes in your journey
Kim in Fontana

yes.  RNY.

OK - - - so the concensus seems to be that everyone ignores the restrictions to some degree, or their particular center has different restrictions.

Met a guy ( non-Kaiser RNY ) at a support group who had 2  bites of thin crust pizza a year after surgery and ended up in the hospital for more surgery to relieve the blockage.

Oh yes.  I did forget to mention the straw.

Much of this is told to you verbally and some is not written down.

And I know there are no answers for some of it. 

And I am not ' worrying ' about these things.  I am just a practical kind of person who likes to plan ahead and think things through before leaping - - -  and kicks myself for being stupid if fail to do so.

When I adopt a new dog, I try to get one with the same color fur as the one I already have, so that I don't have 2 colors of dog fur to contend wtih on everything.  If I have a black dog, I can wear more black.  If I have a black and yellow dog - - - well - - - getting out the door in the morning is going to get a lot more difficult. ( for example )

When I pick materials for my home ( flooring, bathroom, etc. ), I don't get carried away by how beautiful they look - - - I stop and think about how much time I will have to spend cleaning them and whether they will be more difficult to maintain.  ( for example ).

later

If that's what Kaiser really says.... ignore them. There is no reason once your stomach is full healed not to eat anything your body can tolerate. And what it can tolerate is going to vary from person to person.

There may be reasons you *want* to avoid certain foods -- they are trigger foods for you, they stall your weight loss (i.e., carby stuff if you are insulin resistant), you don't like them any more, they are too much work to eat (for example, I can eat bread and pasta but I rarely do).

For Two... maybe you should look into other surgery types, if this is very important to you (it was to me and that's why I have a sleeve).

Three... I eat 2000 calories a day (I need to in order to maintain) and I have friends with RnY who eat 3000. It's perfectly possible especially since your list of "never eat this" foods is being thrown out.

Four... well my surgeon (and some others) thinks RnY is going to go away and be replaced with the sleeve. But, even if they are correct, some day all surgery may go away and we'll have less invasive ways to deal with the problem.

Of course, if I hadn't had surgery NOW, I'd be dead by then. So it's all moot. This surgery exists now and it works.

Five... well, that was my big fear. It's also why I chose a surgery without malabsorption -- to lessen my risks. But the risks are still not zero. Of course, neither are the risks of obesity and they are much higher.

You may be fine *now* but, as you age, it will only get worse. There was a time I was MO and had good BP and good cholesterol. But, as I got older, my cholesterol went up and I ended up on BP meds. It's really inevitable.

And now to your BUT.... If your friend can eat these foods and not regain, there is no medical reason for her not to eat them.

Honestly, I think you are just scared and borrowing trouble. It's pretty normal as the reality of surgery gets closer to be afraid and to have these thoughts (or to start obsessing about dying during surgery). But most of this is fear of change, not a rational risk-benefit analysis.

The best advice I got on this issue was to do your research, make your decisions, and DON'T LOOK BACK.

Just before I start as I'm with Kaiser too...where did you get this information I must have missed it.  But I will answer it according to what I learned and or do.

Chew things: Soup, yogurt, cottage cheese, pudding?
There are some things that people call slider foods that don't require much chewing, etc and thus you can eat more of them which can lead to gain.  These listed are NOT them.  For ME Slider foods can be crackers, cakes, pieces, cookies, ice cream, frozen yogurt, sorbet.  NOW for me these foods are easily liquified, go down easy, and if eaten to excess CAN cause weight GAIN and/or cravings etc.  Now they also should be avoided for RnY because of the excess sugar is most listed that CAN cause dumping (believe it or not everyone who has RnY dumps on sugar, I personally know SEVERAL).

In addition the things you have listed depending on the type can be very FILLING which you want and very nutritious.  Vegetable Soup with or without meat, etc.  Cottage cheese, not necessarily the ones with fruit because of the sugar.  Some puddings, I make my own using SF pudding mix and my lower carb milk or soy milk cause I'm lactose intollerant.

Anything that can cause gas:  Without listing that...these things are VERY individual.  If you eat them and like them and want to blow up homes that's entirely up to YOU.  Again not everything with the RnY is cut and dry for EVERYONE!

Small hard things:  These things should be AVOIDED like the plague (in my opinion****il after at least the 3rd month of so.  You have just be cut open and sewn back together.  These little lovely things can easily get stuck in a suture line and cause an opening, ie leak.  NOT a good thing.  NEVER eating...you know my line...it's individual

Sugar stuff:  Yup you got it individual as far as YOUR tolerance for sugar, cause to much ESPECIALLY process sugar (see slider) can cause dumping NOT FUN.  Many people after WLS follow a low carb lifestyle BUT they also include healthy carbs like fruits and vegetables

Fat Stuff: Again it's about dumping and CHOICES. 

Constipation:  A big problem for MANY....my magic to keep me regular is a good Probiotic which my vitamin person suggested when I told him I was have WLS and 10 cups of water a day.  If I'm missing my 10 I don't go that day.

Fruits vs. Fruit Juice:  Well you shouldn't DRINK your calories and this would also fall into the dumping thing.  Also acid fruit can cause stomach problems...again individual.

Flour:  Think I covered this (slider foods)...again oh yeah the SF stuff I've heard the sugar alcohols that go into making this is NOT fun

Grains:  These can be GOOD for you and heart healthy, wheat bread, oatmeal, high fiber stuff.  But also again it does fall into the carb category and also can become doughy in your new tummy and may cause discomfort.

Carbonated/Caffeine/Alcohol:  Now there are studies that say NON WLS people should stay away from this stuff.  It's also believe that carbonation can cause the pouch and stoma to swell.  Caffeine dehydrates and irritates the stomach lining which has been altered.  Chocolate (carb category) makes you want to eat MORE carbs.  Hmmm this one well we probably hell I drink and YES it affects me way different I am now a very LIGHT weight drinker and I hate it but I live with it.

Misc:  Gum especially in the early stages causes air to enter the stomach and bloats...not a good feeling...after the early stages...remember what your mother told you DON'T swallow.  Some pills/meds especially those that irriate the stomach and can cause ulcers should be avoided like the plague.  Also you don't absorb like before so some meds won't work like before, make sure you are on point with your PCP and they are knowledgable about your new anatomy.

Head Hunger/Reality of Life After WLS/Transfer addiction/figuring out what makes you tick:  You see this surgery for MANY is NOT the magic bullet you think it is.  Oh la de die I'm going to get altered and ALL my problems with go away NOT.  Now you can't just stuff your feelings away and you'll have to deal with many harsh realities.  If your marriage/relationship isn't good before surgery it probably doesn't have anything to do with your weight and could get worse.  If you NEEd and can't face your problems...that's when Alcohol might seem like your new best friend, or shopping or sex ie transfer addition.  Head hunger my favorite...this is the little devil on your should telling you to eat the cake even though it may make you sick or your weight will stall..what will YOU do.  You eat because your stress, bored, horney, tired...well reality is AFTER surgery you will still be stressed, bored, horney, tired and STILL want to eat...what do YOU do.  Surgery doesn't solve world hunger it just make it HARDER to eat MORE...but the further you go it...it gets EASIER to eat MORE...what will YOU do?

What does make YOU think it'll be different THIS time?

WHAT IF:  There are MILLIONS of drugs on the market, you'll play around until you find the right one.  Ok you can't eat whole grains and protein or whatever...you have choices WE all do...what will YOU do?

You are in a convalecent home and guess WHAT...the too know about bariatric surgery.  I used to pick the foods my mother ate, she was diabetic so most of THESE foods were on her list of no's too.  Ok you NEED 2000 calories, then it's OK to eat some of the NO'S that are NEEDED.   Come on really if I need 2000 calories in order to save my LIFE because if I don't I'll wither away into nothing...that's a no brainer.

For SOME in the know WLS is already viewed as a bad idea.  You have a choice to live your life for NOW or later?  Many of the complications that can arrise are NOT all from lack of vitamin supplementation.

Do YOU know all about vitamins and what you should be taken?

Ok if you've read this far that's good cause that mean you are taking your health and well being for LIFE very seriously.  So get out there and learn all their is to know about taking vitamins and good ones for life and realizing this WLS is so NOT about the food.  There are millions of "skinny" people and healthy people in the world that don't have ALL the foods we have access to and they do just fine.  This is all about YOU and what you are truly willing to give up or alter in order to get the weight off and KEEP it off.  Cause getting MANY of us know how to do, it's the KEEPING that gets hard. 

Ms Shell