Heme Iron and Calcium

Andrea U.
on 4/1/10 9:28 am - Wilson, NC
I was asked to put my 2 cents here about this..  I looked for a thread, but about to give the kids a bath so skimming is missing a possible link..

Heme iron alone (ie Proferrin) can be taken with up to 600mg of calcium.  This is why I take a Citracal petite and a regular Citracal at a time, 4x a day.

The heme iron blended with poly at CVS and Walgreens (Bifera) can only be taken with 300mg of calcium.  This is because the poly is limited by the calcium.  The heme would still be absorbed regardless of the inhibited poly -- but you're wasting a crapload of cash if you're buying the Bifera and taking it with 600mg of calcium just for the heme.  (BTW, coupon on Bifera's website for $2)


AND! Proferrin should be back by the end of April.

If anyone hadn't heard, I did a big experiment with Proferrin.  I DID take it with calcium, and it massively increased my iron:

12/2/2009
HGB – 12.6  (12.0 – 18.0 g/dl)
HCT – 39.7%  (37.0 – 51.0%)
Ferritin – 11.1  (11-137 ng/ml)
Iron – 41  (37 – 170 ug/dl)
TIBC – 310  (265 – 497 ug/dl)
Iron Saturation – 13%  (20-55%)

1/4/2010

HGB – 13.13  (12.0 – 15.0 g/dl)
HCT – 38.21%  (35.0 – 49.0%)
Ferritin – 16.3  (6 – 81 ng/ml premenopausal *which seems odd cause post is 14-186….?*)
Iron – 45  (28 – 182 ug/ml)
UIBC – 326  (130 – 375 ug/dl)
TIBC – 371  (180 – 545 ug/dl)
Iron Sat – Not measured

 

3/8/2010

TIBC – 344  ( 250-450)
UIBC – 255 (150-375)
Serum Iron – 89  (35-155)
Iron Sat – 23%  (15-55%)
Ferritin – 23  (10-291 — with a notation that they are changing to 13-150 for Females)

 


So you can see it works.  And nothing else was working for me -- carbonyl, poly, scripts, fumarate -- nothing.  I was taking inhuman amounts with no help.  Then I went 4 months without taking any (problems with my pouch - was hoping this would mean I'd get an infusion at last) and my numbers didn't change -- which only proved that my body wasn't absorbing ANY ionic iron at all.  Now heme works.


(deactivated member)
on 4/1/10 9:40 am
Yay for Proferrin working!!!

Hugs,
Ratkity
* Gail R *
on 4/1/10 10:42 am, edited 4/1/10 10:43 am - SF Bay Area, CA
I just received today in the mail my order for Bifera. How much should I take a day? The bottle says one, but doesn't it malabsorb with the DS? I have been taking five tender irons a day and I am adding this to that dose.

~Gail R~  high wt.288,  surg wt 274, LW 143, CW 153,  GW164

Andrea U.
on 4/1/10 10:55 am - Wilson, NC
It's iron, like the other irons.  It's just absorbed a bit differently.

Heme iron is biologic iron.  'Nuff said?  The poly is ionic -- similar in that they are both chemical in nature.  They absorb in the same place.

The only difference between heme and ionic, really, is how they absorb and the tolerance to that absorption.  So if you're malabsorbing the carbonyl (which is what the tender is), then yes, you're going to malabsorb a portion of the Bifera as well.

With that said, and without knowing your iron numbers -- I can't tell you exactly how much to take.  I can tell you that this contains 6mg of heme iron, and 22mg of poly iron.  The heme cannot be translated to an ionic amount -- so don't ask how much that would equate to.

But also -- this is about $20 / 30 pills, depending on where you got it.  It's pricey.  So if you were to take 2 pills a day -- that's not cheap.  So, if you were wanting to take 2 in order to get them heme?  I'd get Proferrin instead (1 Proferrin pill is 12mg).

vitalady
on 4/1/10 12:11 pm - Puyallup, WA
RNY on 10/05/94
Wait.

Not exactly.

Poly is not the same as carbonyl. Some will absorb one, but not the other, and vice versa.

Don is a good example. On 300mg Tender Iron for years, iron runs 90 or so,, ferritin around 200. H&H are prettier than most.

He added TWO of the poly 150's, in essence doubling his iron intake. But not for iron. He, er, well, constipation has always been my problem--he has no clue what that might be like, right? So, he added the poly in order to slow things down. He's been taking them for 18 months or 2 yrs. He stopped taking all rx for that condition.

BUT, his iron is still around 90 (I think fresh lab is 104) and his ferritin actually slipped a bit to 150.

So, he absorbed Tender very well and as far as iron scores go, the poly did NOTHING for him.

The Bifera is half heme, half poly. If the poly worked for you, it'll work again. If it never worked, it still won't.

Combo-ing is a good idea.

I don't think DS should run out the gate On PF. It's too expensive. And we need more time to figure out what a good dose is. Many do well on the way cheaper Tenders, so start small, and run thru the irons.

KWIM?

BTW, Col Bio Labs is going stark raving nutsoid still being empty as of today.

But, Canada will soon have their version on the shelves. They've been out of it longer than we have.

Michelle
RNY, distal, 10/5/94 

P.S.  My year + long absence has NOTHING to do with my WLS, or my type of WLS. See my profile.

Andrea U.
on 4/1/10 12:47 pm - Wilson, NC
Not that they were the SAME.  Just that they were both ionics.  Meaning they absorb in the same area, have the same rules, blah blah blah.

You've got apples (ionics) and kumquats (heme).  That's what I was trying to get at.  It isn't like the heme absorbs in the stomach, the poly absorbs in the big toe, and the carbony absorbs in the ileum.



vitalady
on 4/1/10 1:00 pm - Puyallup, WA
RNY on 10/05/94
OK, I was just worried that ppl might see all ionics as "bad", when they come in gradations of good to bad. LOL

I just cannot take iron & calcium. It's in my genetic code now, hardwired.

I take my Proferrin with strontium, who doesn't like calcium, and some other random stuff, 5=htp, Benadryl, and so on.

Proferrin prefers a non-acidic environment.

Most other irons prefer acid, which is why you're told to take them on empty.

HOWEVER, most surgery types do not drop a pill into the same vat of acid they had as an intact vat. That's why I always say to take it with some fruit (over and above the vit C)--it creates friendly acid. And all irons EXCEPT heme like some acid.

I did try to get across to CBL how much his product is wanted, and I could hear him pulling out his hair. I think he's almost ready to start stomping the tablets with is own feet to get me off his back. LOL

It's not the raws that are the problem, it's the actual tablet making that has been the glitch. It IS fixed, but you can only make so many, so fast.

My bugging him at 10am,, noon and 2pm didn't make them happen any faster.

Usually, I can annoy almost anyone!

Michelle
RNY, distal, 10/5/94 

P.S.  My year + long absence has NOTHING to do with my WLS, or my type of WLS. See my profile.

Andrea U.
on 4/1/10 1:19 pm - Wilson, NC
Well.  Because we know what heme is.

Psst.  Do you think THEY know what heme is?


vitalady
on 4/1/10 1:29 pm - Puyallup, WA
RNY on 10/05/94
Who? They?

I don't like to think about it. But it works.

Michelle
RNY, distal, 10/5/94 

P.S.  My year + long absence has NOTHING to do with my WLS, or my type of WLS. See my profile.

mickey3810
on 4/1/10 1:49 pm - cedar key, FL
michelle.. Which tender iron has the most absorbable iron? I didnt see any info about iron content last i looked on the tender iron with vit c init my iron is very low dont know the numbers but skin is looking a little yellow & bruising easily so i wanna get it up as quickly as possible... Suggestions? Currently i have no insurance.. Any advice would b great thanx

the only way up is to stop looking down!!

    
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