My Position on "Starvation Mode"

OK, I see this argument on here a lot and I see both sides of it. I have always been of the opinion that there was a "starvation mode" and while I don't think it is as dramatic as people say (i.e. "If I fast I will go into starvation mode") I believe it does exist and here is why. BTW I want to make this disclaimer. I am not a doctor. I am not a nutritionist. I am not a scientist. I am an engineer and of at least average intelligence. So I read a lot about health, nutrition, science and technology. That being said, here is why I have no question that our bodies have a conservation (not starvation) mode. Elina, i know this is a pet peeve of yours, but after you hear this argument I think you will have a tough time arguing with the logic.

OK, we do have a conservation mode. In colder climates our bodies begin to store up fat as we enter colder months. I know this because I lived in a cold climate for half my life. But this is not my argument or my proof.

I know (actually all of us know) that if we don't drink enough water that our bodies retain water. Anyone on here want to argue with that? I can prove this easily with my scale. Everyone on here who ha**** a stall because they weren't drinking enough water and as soon as they get their water to where it needs to be the scale starts moving again is my proof of this. 

Now if our bodies will conserve water that it needs to survive, why wouldn't it conserve fats (our body's storage system for nutrition, which it needs) as well? If we do not eat enough why wouldn't our bodies conserve or retain fat just like it does water? Well it does. Now if you fast for a day or two will you go into starvation mode? No. But if you don't eat enough protein, your body will burn muscle (also something we know through scientific research). When you are burning muscle, you AREN'T BURNING FAT.

So how can you argue that we retain water but we don't retain the other nutrients that our bodies might need at a later time if we are not consuming enough?

Let's stop calling it Starvation Mode and start calling it Conservation Mode. Also lets stop using it as our argument for not losing weight. 

I am not any of the above nor am I an engineer either... I think.. that conservation mode may be a factor when you store up stuff for the winter when you don't have fresh fruit and veggies and maybe just not enough food in general because hunting and gathering in the winter may not be as much fun as it is in the summer. But we are no longer in that frame of life. We have Trader Joe's and all that - all winter long - and fresh fruit and vegetables have no seasons now. So I am not sure if it works anymore in the same way as it may have been intended or may have worked for our forefathers.

Honestly I just think we store fat when we eat too much. And when we go into a caloric deficit or don't eat enough, I personally tend to buy MacMadame's argument that we first burn off the excess fat and only when that goes does the body start to eat away at the muscle and whatever else is left because the body is not stupid - it won't kill itself and leave a whole heap of fat there unused.

Then again, during this weight loss phase we do lose muscle mass - some of us anyway - while we still have some excess fat. So really, I don't know the whole truth in this. It's very interesting though. I would love to understand it better one day.

What I do know is that eating 2-3 oz of protein and some vegetables as meals with a salad or fruit (yes.. I do...!!) for a snack or some cheese or yogurt (yes I do that too!!!) and a few nuts here and there.. and taking your vitamins, drinking your water and moving your butt whichever way - squatting or not - it works to make you generally better looking, healthier, happier, fitter and slimmer.

That position on muscle is incorrect and i have some proof. I still have about 30% body fat. I have a machine that measures body fat and muscle mass. I measure about once a week and it keeps a running history. Last week my muscle mass was mysteriously down 2% and my body fat was up 1.2% while I was showing a4lb loss. When I looked at my diary for the week I had several days where I had 4 pretty strenuous workouts in a 24 hour period and my protein intake was lower than normal. I burned muscle on those days. Your body will burn muscle when it does not have enough protein that it needs. Your body can turn protein into fat but not fat into protein. Your body will stop burning fat and burn muscle every night because you go several hours without protein intake particularly if you are exercising and need to repair muscle. 

Starvation mode is a conservation mechanism for times of starvation and climate change and does not apply to us. Not to fasting, not to low carb diets, and not to reduced calorie diets. My point in all of this is no one on this board needs to be worried about it and can stop using it as an excuse to eat more calories, carbs, etc. 

starvation mode does not refer to burning muscle instead of fat. 

I got that part (that it doesn't apply to any of us) and I agree with you. The burning muscle part I have/had no idea about. I always try to get my protein in at the right amounts daily. I also have a scale that does muscle mass, hydration and fat percentages. I seem to have not had any muscle mass loss but lots of fat loss and lots of increase in the hydration percentage. Not sure how accurate that all is but I will do a full analysis one day... maybe when I am about 10 lbs away from goal weight. Just to see where I am going with all that. It's fascinating stuff...

Well, I think that's true when we run out of stored fat. But until we have used all the fat reserves then this doesn't happen. We get dehydrated when we don't drink enough fluids because we have used up the reserves. I believe the same is true with fat reserves. Starvation mode or conservation mode will kick in when we have used up our stored fat but until that time we need to reduce our caloric intake in order to lose weight. If you have all this excess fat already stored up why would you go into conservation mode? 

The body will do whatever it has to to survive, like in extreme cold,  shut down blood supply to preserve core temp so why wouldn't it slow metabolism and burn the easiest available fuel, the muscles and save the slower burning fat in case the "famine" lasts a long time.  That makes sense to me. 
 

Keith, while I may be of below average intelligence I don't know that your labeling applies. I think your analogy of water and fat being of similar importance to our bodies is overly simplistic. We can only survive a little while withou****er but we can survive much longer without fuel.

I know that when ketones are found in our urine due to ketosis (a shortage of sugars and carbohydrates) that is the indication that the body is burning stored fats as fuel. Does that constitute starvation? Possibly. Or at least the beginning stages. I think the argument could be made that if the body doesn't get enough nutrition and it has to use onboard stores of fats and then muscles and finally organs leading to death, then we could be in the beginning stages of starvation when we first go into ketosis.

I would also assume that the body would slow it's metabolism if it recognizes the burning of fats by making us lethargic as an effort of conservation. So if we push activity while restricting nutrition, we would pass conservation stage and enter the beginning of starvation.

At least that's the way I think about the subject.

I believe there is truth in all of it... I just think people use it as an excuse though. I completely agree that protein and water are vital for our bodies to function properly. We retain water more because we can die MUCH sooner withou****er than we could without food. Our bodies immediately think "no water!" once we reduce our intake, especially if we work out on any regular basis. I think a "starvation mode" is more likely to happen when the protein is not there as opposed to the calories. I guess the term would be quality of quantity. As long as we have "energy" to burn (i.e, the 125lbs of fat I am hoping to begin losing now on my 2 week pre-op and after my surgery) and we get the nutrients in, I don't believe a calorie deficit will cause us to hold on to fat. In my personal opinion... and this is after working in the weight loss industry (during the short 4 years I was smaller) calories are subjective. I have seen people lose weight while going off plan, not working out, and just half-assing the whole thing. Then I have seen people not lose ANYTHING despite logging, working out, ect. You can only claim someone is lying for so long (and I know may of these people were fudging the truth... but there were some that knew WERE working as hard as they could). There are so many factors to the body in why it burns the way it burns... I just have a hard time believing in its entirety "calories in/calories out". Yes, eat better food, eat less (I mean, hello.. one reason I am getting this surgery! Maximum restriction!) and workout as hard as you can... but at the end of the day, the math doesn't always add up.

In conclusion to my little rant here... lol I think nutrients will be the deciding factor of a body going into a type of starvation mode and hold onto fat thinking it will need it. 


Also about the cold thing... my body actually loses weight in the winter. However, I am personally more active when it is cold as well... and I dont have the desire to eat as much because its dark out (I hate to eat in the dark). Of course, the whole winter/cold and weight thing could just be me. Jillian Michaels said that you can lose more weight working out in the cold because your body has to work harder to stay warm.. always made sense to me!

The "Starvation Mode" is a term many of us hear from our doctors and NUTS - I know I did - when I was starting out after surgery.  I was following the Obesity Helps guidelines from vets  - 600-800 calories a day.  Both my surgeon and NUT told me (this was in the 1st 3 weeks after surgery) to UP my calories - I was in "starvation mode" -  I had the normal stall at 3 weeks and of course thought I was the only one this surgery would not work on.

I was confused and immediately turned to this website and the veterans here answered my confusion about this subject - I know you all get tired of answering the same questions over and over.  

I decided to do my own research & stay on the path of 600-800 calories a day and a high protein diet and not to listen to the NUT and not go back to her.  And I just nod at my surgeon when he tells me to up my calories and just go about and do my own thing - I'm healthy - losing weight - and have good blood test results.  

I'm not sure I believe in the "Starvation Mode". But this is an interesting discussion!

I debated getting in on this conversation, but I really think I need to voice what I have gleaned from my research on the subject.

Starvation mode occurs when a person is not eating over a period of time. You are literally starving - not figuratively, but literally. You are not providing your body the nutrients or energy it requires to survive. Because of this your body will begin to cannibalize itself to keep vital organs functioning. This is starvation mode - not a mode of slowed weight loss.

Now, what many medical folks may be calling starvation mode may be what science has discovered happens during a low carb diet or restricted carb diet. Many of the same things happen during carb restriction - including the body tapping into the stored fat, converting it to glucose to feed the body. HOWEVER, since the body is being fed optimal levels of protein to keep muscle, blood and cell production going all the body needs to do is covert the fat for the extra glucose it needs. Several studies show that the body needs somewhere around a minimum of 150 grams of carbs per day to meet minimum bodily functions. When we decrease our intake to about 40-60 grams per day we create a deficit that the body will make up by converting stored fat back into glucose.

Here is a link to an article that I think explains this fairly well in language that is easy to understand: http://www.proteinpower.com/drmike/ketones-and-ketosis/metab olism-and-ketosis/

It is a common practice to teach medical students, and those studying to become RDs and nutritionists that a 1200 calorie diet is optimal for losing weight, in fact, that it is dangerous for people to eat fewer than 1200 calories per day. I believe that many RDs and nutritionists hold the opinion that what they learned in school applies to the morbidly and super morbidly obese, too. Yet, study after study has shown that the most effective diets for the morbidly obese and super morbidly obese have been medically supervised diets of 500 to 700 calories per day.

So, yes, I believe there is a starvation mode, but you need to withhold food for extended periods of time to get there and it is NOT the mode that stalls weight loss or slows the metabolism. It is literally starvation which will eventually lead to death.

When we limit calories to low levels, but continue with optimal protein levels, and get our macro nutrients, nope, I don't buy starvation mode or conservation mode. I'll buy the occasional slow down in weight loss for whatever reason - that happens to almost everyone. It's normal.

For me, I hold the belief that starvation mode (or conservation mode), as it's called here is bunk.