for new people researching weight loss surgery

Dr. Hess, the Ohio surgeon who modified the BPD to become what is now called the DS or BPD/DS has accumulated the LARGEST series of DS patients in the US.  His stats show that DS post-ops can expect to lose 75, not 85% of excess weight.   "20 lb gain from lowest weight has been recorded" is true but misleading.  I'm sure 20 lb gains have been recorded, but some DS patients have regained ALL of their weight.  In fact, there was a DSers on the "failed" weight loss surgery forum on this very website wanting to start a support group for people who never lost their weight to begin with.   DSers can and DO dump.  There were posts RECENTLY on the DS forum complaining about dumping.  The other post like this on our board has the link to those posts for those that want to read them.   BPD-DS increases the possibility of intestinal irritation and ulcers. In fact, ulcers are MORE common with DS than they are with RNY.  Yet this is completely omitted from the complication section of the DS.  (While ulcers ARE mentioned under RNY with a statement about Prilosec - which was NEVER recommended or even mentioned to me by ANY of the surgeons I spoke with regarding post-op RNY life.) I am sure there ARE DSers out there wearing diapers although I'm sure most wouldn't admit it.  I didn't even know WTF a "shart" was until I read DSers talking about it.  If I tried to fart and pooped my pants instead, I'd have to do something.  Diapers, Depends, something! There are many serious DS complications which are ommited all together from this "comparison".  (Ex. 3 - 10 % of experience LONG-TERM protein malnutrition.  5 % of DS patients require revision due to severe complications such as malnutrition, severe diarhea and/or inadequate weight loss.  There are more, but I don't have time to list them all.)   The reason many RNYers have a problem with this analysis is that the entire thing is OBVIOUSLY bias towards the DS and against the RNY.  If you are going to do a true "comparison" like you know what you are talking about, state all the facts (good and bad) for BOTH procedures.  Do not exagerate those of RNY and downplay those of DS.  To do so is misleading.  

By the way I never bashed ds. YOU ARE THE BASHER,the more you post the more lies you get into, I HAVE NEVER DOWNED THE DS OR ANY SURGERY. YOU DOWN ANY SURGERY THAT IS NOT DS. THERE IS NO BETTER SURGERY GET IT? GROW UP.

That is my chart that I have made and others have used.  So now you know the source.  You said: RNYers do not chew food to liquid.  I ate roast beef from Arby's with my daughter yesterday.  I said: Recommended to chew food to liquid (most important early out) RECOMMENDED and Most important early out...someone who is early post op. Nothing incorrect about this.

> Ask any doctor - this is recommended, most important early out  > I can send you links of new post ops eating pureed food, chewing to liquid consistency.  > Wendy is not newly post op so clearly she will be able to eat more food the further out she gets. As i state in my chart. You said: Stoma is the size of a dime not eraser Please show me and i will correct this. 

Glad to finally know the source. "Recommended to chew food to liquid (most important early out)" insinuates that we have to do it forever, but that it is MOST important early out.  So yes, it does insinuate something incorrect.  I know that new post-ops eat pureed or soft foods.  However, if a food is pureed or soft (such as cream of chicken soup or refried beans), you do not even hardly have to "chew" them - much less to liquid.   I'll find sources referring to the correct size of the stoma so I can educate you on this.  I'll post them here when I do.   This is where DSers really overstep good taste.  You post a lie about RNY and I have to DISPROVE it before you will take it down.  You didn't have to PROVE it before you posted it.  But I am so tired of seeing this obviously biased/misconception/skewed "comparison" that I will gladly educate you regarding RNY.

Post Date: 12/31/07 1:10 am
wendy_fou, just to add to your debunking of the lies and mis-information about RNY.....
NIPHS is NOT dumping syndrome.  NIPHS occurs rarely in the general population. It also has occurred more rarely among 2-3 of those who have had RNY. 
Reactive hypoglycemia is also NOT NIPHS. 

NIPHS is a rare cause of adult onset hyperinsulinaemic hypoglycaemia with islet hypertrophy/nesidioblastosis, but without mutations in the ABBC8 and KCNJ11 genes coding for the beta cell K_ATP-channel subunits SUR1 and Kir6.2. NIPHS patients with GCK mutations have never been described. 
This description mentions a genetic cause, and doesn't rule out a genetic cause among the 2-3 who have been diagnosed with NIPHS after RNY.

Haley-Haley along with a very few others have some kind of problem that requires them to feel superior, so have apparently chosen this forum to act out on this problem.
Seems to me that touting the virtures of DS could stand alone, without negativity or outright lies about a surgery she hasn't had. For some reason this doesn't seem to occur to those who are having the problem, they can't seem to focus on their message, unless their message is as Val said that RNYers are damaged goods. 
What I have seen since reading this site are a small group of bullies who don't care who they hurt, or how they make vunerable people feel. Their disclaimers in the signature is pretty much worthless, and doesn't excuse or exeronate them from their actions.

Source # 1 - from the American Society for Metabolic & Bariatric Surgery. Statement: "Recall that this opening is made about 10 mm in diameter, not much wider than dime." Link: http://www.asbs.org/html/story/chapter4.html

Source # 2 The Bariatric Institute of Kentucky Statement: "This opening is called a stoma and is about the size of a dime." Link: http://www.bariatricinstituteky.com/procedure.html

Source # 3 Statement: "The pouch empties into the small intestine through a dime-size stoma." Link: www4.cord.edu/fns/portfolios/vjleek/Treatmentofobesity.ppt

Thank god, someone who is intelligent. thankyou.

I am going to "debunk" some of the items mentioned in Haley-Hayley's post---just those that refer to RNY only--I won't attempt to do the same with the DS--as that is not the procedure that I have the most experience with---thought I did research both procedures along with lapband for 2 yrs before making my choice--- Here we go RNY – expected weight loss     * 50-65% expected excess weight loss (percentage varies in opinion – this is the most commonly seen estimate) ESTIMATE---milage may vary---from person to person--these figures are NOT written in stone---three are RNYers out there that have lost 100+% of their excess weight.                 o RNY must exercise and diet to maintain weight loss after 5 years NO they MUST NOT..... it helps as in any weight loss plan
  RNY – have a stoma (stomach made into a pouch – size of an egg)     * Size: 2 oz           o Stretch to average size of 6 oz in 2 years  (possible to stretch up to 9-10 oz)           o You can eat more as time goes by           o Average after 1 year is 1-1.5 cups of food     * Stoma: blind pouch           o Doctor evaluation: cannot use an endoscope (to find ulcers and tumors) FALSE____many RNY have EDG's for diagnosis---like other people--WHERE did you get this info?? I've personally had TWO EDG's post -op           o Cannot take Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory drugs (NSAID). FALSE--they can be taken under a doctors guidance..... I take them about once a month--and on other occasions with my PCP's recommendations --along with guidance from my surgeon.           o Ulcers (Doctor’s recommend taking prilosec for 1-2 years in an attempt to prevent the ulcers)   FALSE--recommended time is now the first 6 months following surgery.                     o Vitamin Deficiencies--HEY DS has that also!!!                     o Dumping syndrome and NIPHS/Hypoglycemia  DUMPING IS A TOOL---negative reinforcement that many of us need to remind us to not eat foods that got us MO to begin with                     * Dumping: food (most commonly sugar but not necessarily “just” sugar) enters/dumps directly into small intestines and causes physical pain (some people believe this pain enforces good eating habits)           o Dumping varies in degree of occurrence and discomfort           o Dumping symptoms:                 + Nausea                 + Vomiting                 + Bloated stomach                 + Diarrhea                 + Excessive sweating                 + Increased bowel sounds                 + Dizziness               RNY – Eating     * Recommended to chew food to liquid (most important early out)  FALSE--chewing is the first stage for ANY food digestion... well chewed food is important to anyone--but chewed to a liquid??                     o To get food unstuck, patients drink meat tenderizer mixed with water.  NEVER had to do that---               o Not encouraged to use a straw (pushes food too quickly through the stomach and can cause gas/discomfort)  FALSE---I was given straws in the hospital----and I had my surgery at a COE with a surgeon that has done 500+ surgeries        * Water Loading---HOGWASH           o 15 minutes before the next meal, drink as much as possible as fast as possible.           o Water loading will not work if you haven’t been drinking over the last few hours.           o You can water load at any time 2-3 hours before your next meal if you get hungry, which will cause a strong feeling of fullness.  RNY – Possible Issues ALL of the below issues----DSer's have too.  Let's not make this one sided.     * Vitamin deficiencies: Must follow a vitamin regime for the rest of your life           o Common vitamin deficiencies found in vitamins B12, iron, and zinc           o Calcium must be supplemented for the rest of your life     * Bathroom issues           o Gas           o Constipation     * Reversible procedure (Reversals of any surgery is very complicated)           o Revision often performed instead of reversal