DS vs. RYN?

That is exactly what happened.  I remember on the boards they were giving out recipes for Krispy Kreme bread pudding and talking about all the food they were eating.  That is one thing I have noticed that is good is people are now emphasizing avoiding carbs and changing your eating habits.  I remember hearing someone say that the RNY was a diet and the DS was a no brainer.  I went to local support groups which were centered around food, lots of desserts and carby things.  This was in 2002 and I don't think we knew any better.  I did go low carb and avoided all white carbs and I lost weight but I still had the problems with diarrhea and gas.
I do get jealous that other people have done so well and I didn't.  I wonder if I had a different surgeon if I would have had those problems.  I still advise people to look into the DS if they are considering WLS but I also talk about my experience because it's not all sunshine and rainbows for everyone.  I do wish I hadn't have taken malabsorption so lightly.  If I had it to do over again I probably would have gotten the VSG, or not do WLS at all.  It is a fact that a lot of people aren't compliant with their labs and supplements.  That is why I think malabsorption is dangerous.  You don't see it as much here but what about those people that have surgery and then get busy with their lives and think they are normal now?  If you look at the statistics of people who follow up with their surgeons every year you will see a huge drop off after a certain point.  That is what is bad, not the surgery.  My sister had a RNY 8 years ago and doesn't remember the last time she had her labs taken.  She pops a multivit every now and then and calls it good.  That kind of attitude is what scares me.

I also wanted to add that at the time I had my surgery there were no pre op requirements before surgery. I just met with the surgeon and was scheduled for surgery. I learned about eating from other people that had the surgery and at that time avoiding carbs wasn't pushed very hard.
I blame no one but myself for failing. I am a carb addict. I cannot do moderation. God knows I have tried. No surgery will work if you are a carb addict and don't address it. I am avoiding carbs now and it's easier because a) I have detoxed from them and b) I have a smaller stomach so I can't eat much and after my protein I am not very hungry. I know if I ever go back to eating carbs (sugar, flour, junk) I will fail. I knew that carbs were absorbed 100%. and I ate them anyway. No one to blame but myself.
Low carb may have been talked about and maybe no one really said you could eat what you wanted and lose weight. I just heard what I wanted to hear.

Thanks for the detailed response!  It confirms my theory.

I've been on OH since 2005 - a year before my surgery - and have seen many different waves of people come and go.  I never entirely bought into the idea that I could eat what I wanted with the DS, as I'd dieted for 18 years to that point and knew there was no miracle surgery that would fix it all.  I also knew how I liked to eat, and found that the DS was a really good match for my existing eating habits if I could manage to control my carbs more.  Since I was really good at the Carbohydrate Addict's Diet (Drs. Rachel & Richard Heller, if you want to look them up), I figured I could do the DS easier than the others.  I figured Life was hard enough, why make it harder?  It's one of the questions I ask anyone who approaches me about having WLS: how do you eat now?  What do you like to eat?  And we figure out which of the surgeries would complement those habits with the least amount of adaptation.  But I digress...

So there was that hugely vocal group of DSers telling everyone they could eat what they wanted, and there were a lot of people who took that to mean that they could eat the same way they did preop.  Either they discovered through painful trial and error, like you did, that that statement was patently untrue, or they modified their habits to suit their anatomy, or they quietly slunk off the boards and are still miserable.  You are absolutely, 100% right about no surgery working for the carb addict who will not modify their carb intake.  I would have called myself a carb junkie preop, but I was willing to make adjustments to the kinds, frequency, and amounts of carbs I ate.  Every surgery requires some diet modifications.  Just like the reports of myriad DSers continually crapping their pants and wearing Depends, "eating whatever you want" just isn't true for the majority.** 

As for what you said about no preop requirements/poor preop education, I've found that to be true ACROSS THE BOARD for EVERY surgery.  It exists everywhere: surgeons who have let their patients flounder post-op because they haven't educated them preop.  And, sure, I realize that we're all adults and we should all be responsible for our own health and knowing what goes on in our own bodies.  You yourself said that you blame no one but yourself for failing.  But in my opinion, it's not entirely your fault, or if you believe it is, you're SO not alone there.  So many people just take their doctors' word for whatever their ailment is and don't bother to research on their own because they don't know there is more to know about their ailment.  They are just content to know that they're going to be "fixed" and don't know that they should research "how" they're being fixed, or that they do have a say in what is done to them.  I've seen that with all kinds of ailments, too, not just WLS.  My family thinks I'm nuts because I double-check my doctor, or I'll consult Dr. Google and come in to the doctor's office with a semi-informed self-diagnosis.  That's ok.  They can think I'm nuts.  I know that knowledge is power, and I never want to feel powerless again.  But I digress, again...

My surgeon's program has decent preop education, but if I wasn't proactive about my health and let my follow-up lapse, I'd be in a world of hurt.  There are also surgeons out there who still tell their patients to take Tums for calcium and Flintstones for a multivitamin.  We all know that those are both insufficient and inappropriate supplementation for a bariatric post-op.  One of my DE board people told me she was having problems with her teeth cracking and falling out and had experienced spinal fractures.  When I asked about her supplements, she told me she was Tums & Flintstones.  Holy Calcium Carbonate, Batman!  She was 6 years post-op RNY, and no one at her surgeon's office ever ONCE told her to take Calcium Citrate.  WTF?!  And yet again, I digress...  My point is, we need better bariatric pre-op and follow-up education in surgeon's offices, so that people don't have to rely on outside sources for necessary and pertinent medical information that personally affects them.

There are so many people, like your sister (OMG, seriously?!  I'm so worried for her now!  Unless she's supremely lucky, her bones are going to CRUMBLE under her!  Please nag her to get her labs done!!!  She could DIE from vitamin/protein deficiencies!), who think they're "normal" now and don't follow up with their health checks.  The reality is that we may look normal on the outside, but we'll never be normal again, and we should never treat ourselves like we are normal.  We're special: always have been and always will be, and we need to treat ourselves that way.

So, if you've made it this far - and I did warn you that I'm long-winded! - you're right about the low-carb message starting to be pushed now.  There are a lot of people who've realized that "eating normally" has a different meaning after DS.  "Normal" only applies to a post-op DS diet as an OBJECTIVE term: i.e., normal for a non-op.  "Normal" is not the SUBJECTIVE term of "however you ate pre-op," because for a lot of us, that was NOT objectively normal.  I think BECAUSE there were so many people complaining of not losing enough or - gasp - regain/bounceback, and the occasional outright "failure," the majority of DSers on the board reevaluated what was being said and realized that they were sending an inaccurate - or insufficiently articulated - message.  Whew!  That was long, even for me!

Upshot?  There is NO surgery that is right for everyone, though everyone should know the truth about all of them before they choose to have weight-loss surgery.  Education about the surgery you choose should happen before and after surgery.  Everyone should be compliant with the requirements of their surgery for their own good.  Every surgery requires dietary modifications - no surgery will allow you to eat carbs with impunity.  You can't even do that as a normie.

Consider yourself validated (not that you needed it, but I'm doing it anyway).

Good luck with your current surgery - may it serve you better than the original!

**(OK, so, yeah, I do eat whatever I want, but the things I want to eat are usually protein.  I have sweets, too - the Dunkin Donuts people and I are on a first-name basis - but in small servings.  I have bread & pasta, too, but only certain kinds, and only if they're really good.  I stick with whole grains and complex carbs.  I still watch what I eat, how much I eat, and weigh myself daily for accountability.  I can gain weigh, and I've fluctuated up and down as much as 15 pounds since hitting my goal weight of 149, where I am now.  It's just easier to lose now.  I don't count calories, carbs, or anything but protein.  I just wanted to get that out there.)

@ladytazz...thanks.......i never intended to offend anyone hell I have ****ted on myself once or twice at home though after trying to trust a fart if you want to be specific but hell it is what it is and that comes with these surgeries...i can make fun of any damn thing I want.

BRONWEN!!! BronwenBronwenBRONWEN!!!

 

(Bronwen=DS Goodwill Ambassador)

 

How the hell are ya? And where ya been?

NIKKI!!!!!!

I was going to say I got all busy with work and stuff, but that would only be partially true.  I picked up a new hobby - like I needed another - and have been crocheting like a maniac.  It occupies my hands and my brain, so I don't do too much online anymore.  Even Facebook, which had begun to consume most of my OH time anyway.  I figured I'd stop in and say hi!

HI!!!

@Bronwen....yes, I said it cause that is what most DS'rs have said...if "U" feel overly sensitive because of my opinion on a public forum that "U" feel is offensive....too damn bad....DS'rs diss RNY'rs all the time and I try to make light of everything...Hell, I fart every damn day all day and sometimes it is funny and not to be trusted so as R&B singer Monica song says "Don't take It Personal"....

But if you do take it personal then don't post behind me cause I have thick skin do DS'rs have thick skin?  We take the comments all the time that RNY is a poor wls choice and when we make a rebuttal here comes the "sensitivity"....get a life! and get over it!

you know, I don't post on this forum often so you don't know me but this post ticks me off. I've always hated the "team RNY" vs. "team DS" mentality.

the last thing I want to be defined by is the type of weight loss surgery I had. my shoes, my eyes, my profession, ANYTHING but that.

for you to pick on Bronwen who is one of the most tactful, nice people around because she dared to disagree with you makes you no better than the people you've been *****ing about.

If you have issues with some people who DS surgery, fight with those people.

Bronwen has always been welcome and appreciated on this forum. SHE is always polite and not rude to people.

something is obviously bugging you and I can get it if you are having a bad day. but lets not generalize ok?

I didn't take it personally.  However, I must not have been very articulate in my response if you thought I did.  Let me try again.

DSers do not wear Depends for fear of crapping our pants.  Nor do we crap our pants on a regular basis.  Those two statements are facts with no emotion attached.

I think the reason that I commented on your post specifically is that you are 2 years out of your RNY.  On these boards, that qualifies you as a veteran.  People look up to you and respect your opinion, as they should.  With that "veteran status," you now have more responsibility - whether you wanted it or not - and with that responsibility comes an obligation to pass on accurate information.  When newbies come to OH, they rely on us vets to give them accurate and pertinent information.  When a veteran spreads misinformation, even unknowingly, it gets accepted as truth by newbies and the cycle of misinformation perpetuates itself.  You absolutely have the right to say whatever you feel, but you should know that, as a vet, newbies watch you and absorb what you write here.  Knowing that always makes me think twice about what I type, just in case there's anyone reading.  My only goal in posting after you was to publicly counter the misinformation about Depends in the least inflammatory way possible.  I guess it was more combustible than I realized.  I'm sorry you felt like I was picking on you personally - that wasn't my intent at all. 

I've been on OH since 2005, and have seen all kinds of surgery wars.  I know what's been said about the RNY by people with other surgery types.  I don't diss the RNY, as I have way too many friends who've got them, and I've seen them work.  For some people, it's a wonderful surgery.  For me, it wouldn't have been a good match, and that's all you'll see me say about it.  To diss the DS, though, because some DSers have dissed the RNY, well... there are different schools of thought on that one.  Some people will always sink to the same level, figuring an eye for an eye is what's called for.  Me, I figure that that approach leaves everyone wounded and blind.  I prefer to rise above it and not participate in the name-calling.

So, I did not mean for you to feel attacked, and I'm sorry if my post made you feel so.  I just wanted to clear up a statement for any newbies who might be reading and wondering about the DS.

@Bronwen....I stand corrected....And I did not mean to offend u or any other DS...hell I did not even know what a DS was until I joined OH...I won't go into details but a few days ago a girl named Texas sapphire I think posted that she is a post RNY who has gotten off track after gaining weight a few years after. A DS'r who I remember her name but won't mention you can look it up...made comments about if she had DS she wouldn't have failed at wls and she would have been able to keep her "God given anatomy", no dumping, etc.etc....that offended me on behalf of myself and other RNY that our surgery choice is a poor one which started these two hot posts yesterday...Believe me I am cool as hell to deal with but don't step on my toes even virtually....lol.......just kidding but I do respect and understand about being a veteran with post op...that is a compliment in itself...I thought I was only a veteran at being married for 15 years, having 10 kids and a master at diaper changes..(I can change two babies at one time in less than one minute)....but anyway you are right I will keep my words in check when I post to not "inflame" or "misinform" newbies cause I would feel the same way!........Thank you for responding and much love!.....besides one of my new shopping friends here in GA is a DS'r and I will make sure to talk to her about the surgery...it seems to be more known now than ever...