Why does it bother me so much?
I read post after post by people who can't wait to have their surgery so they can start losing weight, but they don't start NOW because their surgeon doesn't require them to. WTH?
Why don't they want to start living the new lifestyle NOW? Practice eating right, stop eating fast food, start getting in fluids etc.
Why do so many pre ops believe they have to have the surgery first to start losing? Why not put the effort forward pre op? It all counts towards your long term goal. Surgery is not a cure, it's a tool.
six times a day, you need to eat several bites of animal or meat protein, first bite, nothing to drink with, and when you are timing your drinking, and you have to stop half hour before you eat, and wait half hour after, and when you eat 4 to 6 times a day, and you will if you don't want to stretch your pouch, smaller portions and more meals creates better opportunities of absorption.
When these surgeries are described, you are given a list of post op supplements, and you hear these rules, and chewing your food 25 times per bite. Just do that for six months before your surgery. Do it with the amount of food you eat now.
YOu will have no real clue about things that nobody can explain properly until you live it. I recall people saying, I used to live to eat now I eat to live. What that meant before and after were two completely different things.
I am 11 years post op and still gathering information because there is no national registry doing it, and you have to become a specialist, and if you do not, you can be certain that others will not.
If you are the type that isn't a joiner of groups, then you had better become your own therapist. Because you will be in a situation that is like nothing you ahve experienced.
Yes, these surgeries will make you lose weight. But see if you can get the owners of this site to run a post of people that join, how long they post, and how often they return after three years post op. Two years post op? Five years? There aren't a lot that stay around, and I would be interested to see if there are people on this board who are paid to be mean to people that post anything negative because I have seen people be demolished by others with clearly nothing more going on in their life than to pounce on someone that has a different view than they do.
I remember this site before all of the ads. Before this format. And I also recall tha tanyone could discuss anything. There were 22,000 members registered then.
If you post and it isn't liked, you get monitored now. This isn't a site for a FREE exchange of information like it once appeared, but it appears that it is now here simply to advance weight loss surgery.
You newbies, if I could only help you see that if you do not deal with your own, UNIQUE reasons for your weight, BEFORE you let someone cut on you for the most profitable surgical procedure in history, and that your life, if you want it to be healthy, will require the exact same diligence as the diet and exercise you now dread or feel deprived of, and that if you are fighting just to keep your life, period, rather than your "skinny life", everything looks different.
If you can't do it for six months without the surgery, you will end up with so many health problems you can't imagine.
I wih everyone the absolute best journey, what ever YOUR choice is. Choices are ours. I just believe that everyone needs to be told the entire truth and if you see your surgeon, you ask to get a copy of the consent form you will be asked to sign, and then you go resesarch what each item on it means. Then when you sign it, you will know what you are getting into.
Good Luck!
in January, when I was hoping to have surgery by June. It did really help A LOT! Still having a
problem with the supplements, but I get them in, more or less correctly.
When I was doing the pre-op workups, I saw a meeting advertized here for a gathering at a
restaurant nearby my home, so I went. I spoke to several of the folks there, and to a person
they all said "you'll be weighing, and measuring, and timing, food intake more than you ever
did at Weigh****cher's"!!! I didn't understand what they were talking about, but boy did I
learn post-op!
The nice thing about the post-op life is that all the weighing, measuring, and timing, actually
worked!! Where I had to battle for a weight loss at WW, now all I had to do was eat properly
and exercise! Hallelujah!!
I wasn't a member until 2005, so I'm not familiar with the prior OH Board; I do like this one,
mostly, and try to ignore the worst of the yappy fools. The block button reallyis great for
that!i
Why don't the older folks stick around? Mostly because they are so busy enjoying life!!
"six times a day, you need to eat several bites of animal or meat protein, first bite, nothing to drink with, and when you are timing your drinking, and you have to stop half hour before you eat, and wait half hour after, and when you eat 4 to 6 times a day, and you will if you don't want to stretch your pouch, smaller portions and more meals creates better opportunities of absorption."
But no, you do NOT need to eat animal or meat protein. You need protein, yes. But vegan sources of proten will do just fine.
There is also no reason to stop drinking half an hour before you eat.
Kelly
Please note: I AM NOT A DOCTOR. If you want medical advice, talk to your doctor. Whatever I post, there is probably some surgeon or other health care provider somewhere that disagrees with me. If you want to know what your surgeon thinks, then ask him or her. Check out my blog.
As for meat protein, the reason I said that is you are less likely to have the B12 malnutrition if you are eating the meats. at year 8 when they tested my B12, it was completely normal, (the rest was a big fat mess) but B12, normal, all because of my recalling the first bite protein.
I wont' go into the rest of that day, but I was surprised and realized that it had paid off. I know vegans know how to get their B12 as that is an issue with or without WLS.
For 7 years, from the hospital, my nose had a watery discharge, and I had to carry a wad of puffs, and went thorugh a box a day (whould have bought stock). And when I learned about the other issues and malnutrients, although my runny nose likely would never lead to my death, it certainly curbed my joy and quality fo life, and I was thankful when I accidentally stumbled onto the nutrient that I was deficient in. All I know is it is one of three things. My mom had been told she had cnacer, and a friend had recommended this stuff called Frequensea.
I don't know about the other stuff in it, but I bought it for mom, and when she didn't drink it, I didn't want to waste, and figured it can't hurt. so I started drinking a swig each day and after about two weeks, (I had become so used to my nose run and blowing, I didn't notice when it stopped) I noticed I was still on the same box of Puffs. And then I realized, my nose isn't dripping. Why? I retraced my steps, and the only new thing was that stuff.
So I ran and read the ingredients. It had all of these thigns that make it "special" but the three things that stood out, Selenium, Boron, and Chloride.
Okay, three micronutrients. But I had to test the theory. So when I had run out, I hadn't been thinking about it, nor had I paid any attention when I ran out of Puffs in my box. Oh my, I was wiping my nose again. I realized I had run out fo that stuff I was drining about three days to a week. So I go online order some more just to see if that was it.
It arrives, and I started taking again. Within a week, no more running. I know it isn't scientific, but nobody will tell me any different because I run out when I run out, and if I dont' have the money, I wait to order, like today. My nose has been running for three weeks since I rant out. Oddly, each time I run out, it takes longer and longer for the run to return, which then nudges me to reorder. I am guessing I am building up in my system some kind of store of whichever the micronutrient that affects that in me in particular. it may not you, but this is me folks.
When it arrives, I know though, the runny nose will stop again, and I will go months without having to blow or think of it.
So, do your OWN homework. Taking notes will help you. If you aren't organized, get that way. Try to keep a diary of everythign you do, when and how and where, and what, and how much because trust me. After this surgery, you are one unique person.
If you do not learn how to advocate for yourself to medical personnel that aren't educated by this industry, you can find yourself in a pickle in the ER with an idiot.
And they used to tell people to take extra folate, and D long before they just started adding the D again now that they learned of the malnutrient factor with the calcium and the problems with hypocalcemia, and APGARS (threw that in for those who want to do some studying) low D can lead to demineralization as it has been referred to, of your bones. And you new ops, don't know that if you do not get these messages and do the work now, you will be paying at year ten, and on. Don't think you are the one that is the one that doesn't have to do it.
You have chosen the most radical thing anyone can do to their body. The intentional mutilation of a healthy organ to induce anorexia. There is a reason they say anorexia is bad. So you need to realize that post op, you are technically an anorexic, and it isn't about how they look that kills them, it is the failure of their organs after they have drawn the protein from their muscles, (wasting) to survive, and then they finally give out. Don't think you are any different.
You will deal with this your entire life, and there is nothing wrong with that so long as you have been warned. I take strong issue with what I call Dr. Cutenruns (cut and runs) who like to do the surgery, but don't have the staff, nor care to see that people are doing well after year four.
If your surgeon EVER cuts you loose after year three, and tells you to have your PCP do your followups, you go immediately to another surgeon that has a full staff, Psychologist, Endocrinologist, Pain Management, Nutritionist, (And please people don't use the word Nutrition, if you are talking about diet. They are DIFFERENT).
Hope this cleared up, didn't mean to leave you vegans out. Just thinking about my B12 and the reason it was never low, which is unusual often, particularly since hte rest of my body was such a mess nutritionally.
Smiles;)
My PCP is currently doing my labs. I take her a list of what I need ordered every six months and she orders them. My surgeon closed his practice six months after my surgery. I did see another surgeon for a while but really all I need for follow up at this point is someone to order the labs so my insurance will pay for them.
Neither of the surgeons I saw had a psychologist, endocrinologist or pain management doc on staff. Do most bariatric surgeons have those people on staff? Both had registered dieticians, but that was it. I see a psychiatrist for my mental health care so I would have no need of seeing a psychologist in my surgeon's office. I don't need an endocrinologist, either. Or a pain management doc. I see a back specialist for my back pain.
Kelly
Please note: I AM NOT A DOCTOR. If you want medical advice, talk to your doctor. Whatever I post, there is probably some surgeon or other health care provider somewhere that disagrees with me. If you want to know what your surgeon thinks, then ask him or her. Check out my blog.
What was it they joked about on SNL, Believe me now and hear me later?
Honey, I don't know you, but I do know more about bariatric surgery than I ever wanted to. I am in litigation with the entire industry right now, and I can assure you that you need an endocrinologist. If you wait until you need one, you are usually too late. On pain management, I assure you that if you are not getting 1-2K IUs a day, and getting tested to see if they are getting absorbed, from your labs, and if your Calcium isn't absorbing, which taking doesn't mean absorbing, you could be forming kidney stones, or a number of other ailments that are caused that most medical professionals don't know anything about because this industry couldn't get enough patients to do enough tests, or true clinical trials, so they allowed Vista Medical to run a 1 year PR campaign with Carnie Wilson, to generate public demand for what they know is experimental surgery.
They claimed and whill keep on, that it is all about diabetes and heart and stroke...
This surgery creates more patients than it heals simply because this industry did not follow their own rules for choosing patients. IF you had insurance, they didn't reject you. Period.
They needed to get as many as possible done so they could perform "retrospective studies".
You will find the majority of everything is done on people after they were operated on.
We all get so blinded in the honeymoon phase, and we don't realize that the nutritional work we do today won't show up for a year in many aspects. So, we don't think we have problems.
You will always need to be checked by an endocrinologist after any gastric bypass. Lap Band, I can't speak so much to, but anything malabsorb based with restriction, your head will think you are being "well-fed as my doc wrote down, but I was eating 5-6 veggie servings a day, about the same in fruit, and meat protein, and the reason it was protecting my B12 2was the intrinsic factor.
We have limited intrinsic factor, but B12 only absorbs in two places, and the primary is from animal protein and that is why the first bite is supposed to be protein.
I went through a trauma after I learned my personal story, and developed mental connections between food nad the negative experience and dropped thirty pounds below my lowest "ideal" weight I had maintained my whole life and had only gotten fat the last year, when I wasn't even meeting the criteria. I was used as the subject for training new sugeons because I had a pristine body to work with, no childbirth, helath problems, nothing to cause any issues, and not a lot of belly fat. I had very evenly distributed weight. But anyway, I was told by the surgeon that I would always need an endocrinologist, psychiatrist, psychologist, and pain management, because of my severe pain. If you are managing, great. Jsut keep up anythign to feed your cartilage, bones, anything to protect that which will cause you a lot of pain.
My pain started earlier and I never mentioned to the surgeon due to my particular disclosure of risks, which I assume is not the same as now, when I read the tort reform laws, which I believe were written just for this industry.
But you have to ask yourself a lot of questions when people with no nervous system problems, psychiatric problems, addictive or compulsive problems, develop all of the above post operatively, and there is consistently no answer? Then the docs stop believing you.
I have issues with this industry as you may hear. But I also do not believe in telling anyone what they should and shouldn't do for their own decisions. I didn't suffer with several hundred pounds over my ideal, and I can't speak to the person with diabetes, or other issues that this surgery could be good for. But I have great issue that this industry spoke up after a million people were operated on while it still didn't even have a legal risk disclosure required.
I have to say one of hte best doctors that tries to explain the reality and severity and make sure people are prepared, although he isn't as forthcoming as I would like to see, I have to give him props, because of his Patient Physician manual, which fits many of the bypass surgeries, aside from his mini gastric bypass, I recommend reading and taking to your PCP, so your regular doc will understand that you have a whole different system, and that which looks normal to one will look odd on you.
I laid in an ambulance with five EMTs waiting to take me to the ER passing my EKG/BP/Pulse results around saying they had never seen such a thing. It is very scary knowing so many don't understand what happens to us. But for every person, I can tell you that if you are able to be a naturally laid back person, and lead a very stress free existence, you will do much better with this surgery after.
Persons who experience a lot of outside life stressors in the first two years, that causes your adrenal system to kick in and things start turning on that fight or flight mechanism, and it doesn't know how to ever shut off. That leads to panic disorders, anxiety attacks that all feel like you are dying, and you will never live normal again once that happens.
So to anyone preop or new op, destress and learn how to manage stress. It could mean the difference in how long you get to live!
The psychologist is to help with whatever you need that can form, which in my case, I have been fearless, and the one that took on anything, and could juggle it all and never drop a thing, and it was always a satisfactory end. I kept living like I was who I was, not realizing my insides were being slowly dismantled. So when I needed to reach in there for stuff that was there my whole life, it was all gone. So I developed everything from fear of leaving my home, fear of the sun (blistering severely from the trigger of the zoster and like viruses in the nervous system) and my face looking as one man put it, like your husband beat you!
I had managed to get them to stay away, but today, after more than a year, I have a quarter sized group on my nose, in my nose, and in my mouth on the gums under where it is outside. All from my permanent central nervous system damage.
So, never think you are there. I can't stop studying because they publish new things all fo the time, now that they have such a rich environment to perform all kinds of reverse engineered studies. YOu ahve to check the funding, and ignore that brainwash speak that this surgery is the most effective solution to weight loss. That may be. But if you have no qualify of life, it doesn't much matter if you are a size 4. Which is what I am currently. I was never a 4.
I stopped having a life around 2005 after living five years trying to deal with whatever it was happening to me, thinking early menopause, adrenal fatigue from a stressful year, all kinds of things. And the pain, the only thing I had to offer them was a rollerblading fall seven years earlier. I had nothing else. But the pain got worse and kept relocating. They stopped believing me. And then when I realized I was medicating my nervous system with the pain meds too, you dare mention those two words together, nerves and pain, and you will have a doctor in front of you thinking, "I have a drug addict looking for their next fix" and they stop listening to you.
The reason is that in general, it has been true that was the case. This industry has not educated the medical world nor their patients because they have to keep the words "cost effective" and education means testing when things go wrong.
What I have found is that most get misdiagnosed, many get disabled, and it gets attributed to things that are never connected to this surgery, simply because the symptoms resemble whatever the latest drug being pushed is to serve.
I pushed asking for tests, because I didn't want to just treat symptoms, and thankfully once I learned it was nutrition related, I was glad I never filled the ones they kept trying to give me. It would have delayed even longer discovery. And the deficiencies would have done even more damage.
I am not an alarmist, but everyone needs to know this is no simple cosmetic fix. They are using a scalpul to fix what developed from a combination of issues, few relating to the physical.
There are a lot of good bioethic articles that make great points.
This surgery affects areas of the digestive system that speaks to the brain, and the nervous system in ways they still don't even understand yet. So it is a gamble.
So I say, see the endocrinologist, just to keep tabs on your parathyroid and thyroid, and other things that they deal with unrelated to what you think. I was the same way as you once too.
The endocrinologist is about the most important person you will need to see after, once you know you are free from direct surgery complications. Then the invisible will start showing up, and if you are ready for it, you can be a success story. If you don't, you will recall reading this.. ;)
Just trying to help anyone and everyone never experience the hell I have lived through. on a scale of 1 to a 100, quality of life, mine is a 4. I can't drive anymore, work anymore, and I have developed cognitive disabilities, so my once smart brain si still there, but dependent on the stupid part to get things done that it wants to accomplish, but it has to endure watching the stupid part try to catch thoughts each day, like Miagi trying to catch flies with chop sticks!
You are so new in, do it all now, and you will do well. Do not ever think you are normal though. And you never get to be lazy either.
I-2K IU of what? From my labs, I know that I am absorbing my calcium. My calcium level is in the middle of the normal range, my PTH is closer to the bottom of the normal range, and my vitamin D is a either 120 or 140 (I can't remember which one and I don't have the lab report in front of me right now). My bone density scan also shows that my bones are in good shape.
What do you suggest I go to an endocrinologist for? I mean, when I go to my appointment and the doc says "What can I help you with?" what would I say. I don't understand what I would need an endocrinologist's help with. I understand malabsorption. I get labs done every six months. A very long list of labs. They take 16 tubes of blood. But why would I need an endocrinologist to order those labs instead of my PCP?
I realize you don't know me, so I am trying not to take offense at your comment about how I "never get to be lazy." I am not lazy. I am very well informed about nutritional issues after RNY. I believe I am doing what I need to do to continue to succeed.
Kelly
Please note: I AM NOT A DOCTOR. If you want medical advice, talk to your doctor. Whatever I post, there is probably some surgeon or other health care provider somewhere that disagrees with me. If you want to know what your surgeon thinks, then ask him or her. Check out my blog.
Dave Chambers, 6'3" tall, 365 before RNY, 185 low, 200 currently. My profile page: product reviews, tips for your journey, hi protein snacks, hi potency delicious green tea, and personal web site.
I'll tell you why I didn't try to lose weight between the time that I decided to have surgery and the day I actually had surgery.
I had tried to lose weight. I had tried many times. I was not successful. I would count calories and exercise (not real hard exercise, but walking a couple miles or so) and I might lose one or two pounds. Then nothing for a couple weeks. I would get terribly discouraged and quit trying. It's not that I thought I shouldn't have to work for it, but emotionally, I felt horrible guilt when I tried and it didn't seem to be working. I thought I was doing something wrong but I didn't know what. I would end up mired in self hatred.
Yeah, I had mental problems.
OK.... I kinda still do. But not like that. It's better than that, now. And yes, I've had lots of therapy. Years and years and years of therapy.
Anyway, I did start getting more protein and drinking more fluids while I waited for surgery day. I started taking my vitamins, too. But I did not try to lose any weight. I just thought that there was no reason to put myself through that again.
Kelly
Please note: I AM NOT A DOCTOR. If you want medical advice, talk to your doctor. Whatever I post, there is probably some surgeon or other health care provider somewhere that disagrees with me. If you want to know what your surgeon thinks, then ask him or her. Check out my blog.
