Question:
Need Opinion On Surgery Types

I can't seem to make up my mind on whether to have the RNY proximal, medial, or distal. At first I was going to do the distal, then I changed my mind to proximal, and contemplated the medial. I think I'm really interested in the proximal for the less evasive operation and less side effects. What I want to know is.....how much people have lost and the amount of time they lost it in. I'm 5'2 at 270 lbs, so if anyone in that range could give me info I would really appriciate it. Thanks, Ter    — TLLessor (posted on January 26, 2003)


January 26, 2003
Well if I had to go with a RNY I would have chosen a Distal because that one has the most malabsorption to it.In other words you would be least likely to regain your weight once you lose it.Everyone is always worried about less invasive surgery, I was more concerned with getting the most effective surgery. I chose the Duodenal Switch.which has the reputation of being the most envasive surgery, butit is actually the most natural., in that it leaves your stomach functioning as a stomach should . I have also not seen as many complaints of side effects with a Ds which is exactly opposite of what the doctors who do the RNY tell their patients.Rnys Dump, Go hungry,get their stomas plugged, Vomit constantly,eat only enough to keep a bird alive, and even after they loose weight , still have to diet and exercise like crazy to maintain their loss.If I could have dieted to get and keep the weight off I would have done it instead of being cut open.DS allows you to eat normal amounts of food and lose weight never to regain. I am 8 months out from my DS I have lost 70 pounds And Have a year left to make my goal of 100 pounds down.Most of the DSers I know have lost weight even faster .I am now loosing about 3-4 pounds a month.I am very happy with my DS. If you want more info on the DS you can go to duodenalswitch.com It is full of info . Laura Wilkins
   — Laura W.

January 26, 2003
RNY distal medial or poximal are all the same surgery as far as evasivness of the suregeery!!!! these terms are only refering to the amount of intestines bypassed the more bypassed the more malabsortion....but the surgery itself would be the same invasiveness!!!! to compare evasiveness you must compare to DIFFERENT surgerys ....Lap band being the least invassive compared to a vbg vbg less invaassive compared to rny exctra....see what i mean... i wishh you luck in your choice of SURGERY...but the amount by passed (proximal,distal.medial...) that choice is made by the doctor based on starting height and weight...and i deal height and weight.....not by you the patient.
   — bekka K.

January 26, 2003
Original poster here. Just wanted to clarify myself. I know that all three surgies are the same and are evasive. If I'm understanding things right.. you will have a faster and more rate of loss with the distal than the proximal. The proximal is done laposcrop...(can't spell) where the medial & distal is open. So the recoop time for the proximal is faster. So are there people out there that has had the proximal that has gotten down to their ideal weight and have stayed there? As for the DS surgery. I don't believe my DR does that one. But I will look at that website. Thanks all, Ter
   — TLLessor

January 26, 2003
All three, proximal, distal and medial can be done either open or lap. Usually, the surgeon makes the decision as to which one he/she will do. Sometimes they will do a distal for people who are super MO because it does cause more malabsorption. However, the distal can have more problems with vitamin and mineral deficiencies because of that. All three are invasive if done open, but not so much if they are done lap.
   — garw

January 26, 2003
I strongly disagree that the patient should leave the choice of something as important as limb lengths solely up the surgeon's judgment. Don't make this decision until you've read every bit of research you can possibly find and you've talked dirctly with dozens and dozens of patients who have had each of the surgeries you're considering. Also make sure that you consult with more than one surgeon. This is a decision that will affect the quality of the rest of your life -- make it a good one. The surgeon I first went to offered only proximal and medial Roux-en-Y bypasses (never more than 150cms bypassed). The more I researched, the more I feared the *significant* late regain issue with these procedures. So I cancelled my RNY surgery date and traveled hundreds of miles to have the laparoscopic Duodenal Switch with the surgeon of my choice. Today I'm seven months post-op, and I couldn't be happier! I've lost 98 pounds (18 right before surgery) and now I'm just 17 pounds away from having a "normal" BMI. I can eat and drink anything I want, as long as I make certain to get adequate protein (70+ grams daily) and take my vitamin & mineral supplements. As far as I'm concerned, the Duodenal Switch (BPD-DS) is the best-kept secret in weight loss surgery circles! Yes, the procedure is more technically complex than the RNY, so fewer doctors offer it. It's also newer and significantly malabsorptive (that's what makes its weight loss stats so good), so some insurance companies won't cover it (similar to the distal RNY). And it does require more careful follow-up and adherance to a good supplement regimen, because the malabsorption issues could lead to serious health problems for those who aren't compliant. But if you know you can take your vitamins and be reasonably diligent about protein, the Duodenal Switch is without a doubt the best thing out there! It offers the highest quality of life and the best long-term weight loss results. Please don't have surgery until you've fully investigated this option.
   — Tally

January 26, 2003
tally, what you did was to chose a different surgery all together.....if you are having a rny...you SHOULD listen to the doc sugestion for limb length...if you are a light weight you could be asking for severe health problems if you are given a distal....let the limb lenght FIT the weight problem ...other wise you will have people insisting on distal that dont need it and have touble stabelizing there weight and lose TOO MUCH because they should have ben proximal based on there begining wweight...you switched to a ds wich is wich is simaler to a RNY distal btu with one big difference you....your pouch is left way larger so you CAN eat more and abssorb less but if you have a distal rny your pouch is left smaller so you can not eat as much but are STILL absorbing less that is why distal i usualy reseved for the more severly obese.... bekka
   — bekka K.

January 26, 2003
oh also the DS is not newer...just done less often because of the signifigant malabsorbation issues...and i am not saying it is a bad surgery just that that is why it is done less frequently and why alot of insurance question there coverage of it .... bekka
   — bekka K.

January 26, 2003
Terrie, I have the impression that the type of surgery you should choose depends on where you are now (M.O. or super-M.O.), what your pre-op eating and exercise habits are, and how willing/able you are to change those habits as a post-op. The more you have to lose, the more seriously you should consider a distal RNY or DS (and this is just my uneducated impression!).<P>At a BMI of 49, I don't think you need to go "distal" to get to goal, but a lot may depend on how committed you feel you will be, as a post-op, to making permanent changes in eating and exercise habits. I have seen other DS'ers post and say that they eat whatever they want and don't see the re-gains that some RNY or band people get. That leaves me wondering if they're actually saying, "Hey, you don't need to change your eating habits if you have DS" (with the big exception of the absolute need to stay on top of your supplements). With the exception of surgical failures, which are relatively uncommon, I think many of us regain because we have a hard time holding onto the good habits we learned (or should have learned) as early post-ops.<P>I know that my pre-op eating habits were terrible -- binging on huge amounts of carbs and fats, despite knowing darned well how I *should* have been eating. And of course, little or no exercise, because I was tired and depressed all the time, because my nutrition was bad and I felt bad for having no control over food. At a starting BMI of 42, I wasn't an appropriate candidate for a distal RNY or DS anyway, but -- oh, PLEASE don't flame meeee) -- I also had no interest in any type of surgery that would "enable" me to continue eating so poorly. I gotta believe most DSers, like the RNYers and banders, "get religion" about their health and become more serious about what they eat as a result of undergoing WLS. Especially since they've got to be dead-on serious about their supplements, as we all should be. Any DSers care to comment?
   — Suzy C.

January 26, 2003
Bekka, I didn't mean to imply that you shouldn't "listen" to your surgeon. I absolutely think you should. Listen very carefully, ask questions, take notes, and then go do your own research. What I intended to communicate is that you should not let your surgeon have the final word. If you're not happy with the answers you're getting or the options that are being presented, find a different surgeon. This decision is too important and life-altering to let a doctor make the big calls for you. And I'm not implying that people should run off and demand a distal RNY. I agree that wouldn't be the best choice for most "lightweights." However, I think that everyone needs to know about all of their options, and not rule anything out just because their surgeon doesn't offer a particular procedure or variation. The proximal RNY can be very successful for many people, but there are *significant* issues with late regain of weight for a large minority of patients. I think people need to know that going in, and they need to factor it into their decision-making process. <br><br> And, I'm sorry, but your information about the DS not being newer than the RNY is incorrect. The first BPD-DS was performed in 1988 by Dr. Douglas Hess. It has an excellent 15-year track record at this point, but insurance companies are reluctant to pay for anything they don't have to, and some of them are still trying to get away with calling it "investigational." It won't work forever -- too many patients and surgeons LOVE this surgery and won't settle for less.
   — Tally

January 26, 2003
Ya know, this whole idea anyone can "get religion" after any WLS and somehow change (for the rest of their life) their eating behavior is a fallacy of gargantuan proportions, in my opinion. How many of us have dieted successfully in the past? How many of us have KEPT the weight off? Very few. And the reason diets ultimately fail is the very same reason that some WLS procedures have more long-term regain than others. Having WLS doesn't suddenly turn us into food saints. Someway, someday down the line, the old tendencies will return. Perhaps the restriction and dumping will help curb those tendencies. Perhaps not. WIth little malabsorption, you are completely dependent on behavior modification to stay successful. I didn't want to be in that position. I knew myself better than that. With the DS procedure, my observation for nearly 4 years now has been that we don't have to fundamentally change our food behavior very much. The stomach never expands to pre-op size, so we cannot continue to eat the same quantity of food as pre-op. At the same time, there is significant malabsorption of fats (this selective malabsorption is unique to the BPD and DS), and moderate malabsorption of protein, carbs and other nutrients. We don't malabsorb sugar, but we'd have to work very hard to sabotage ourselves with sugar. It's no joke. This procedure gives us NORMAL better than any other option, and normal includes being just as imperfect as the never-been-fat person standing next to you people.
   — mmagruder

January 26, 2003
tally thanks for slarifying that it seem we actualy shre the same opinion after all just needed a little clarification ...i agree with you that you need to 100% educate yourself and know what you need but your doc does have to play arole in you choices...also also i consider that since the ds has been here since 88 rather then say the lap band wich Just had fda aprooval in july last summer that it is not a NEWER surgery....and has been preformed enough here ion the states for insuraces and doctors to gather pertainant info on its outcomes both good and bad....and most insurances will look vey very closly at aproval for this surgery do to the signifigant malabsorbtion factor...they need to KNOW that the patient can be 100% compiant with the nutritnal suplements because of the type of procedure it is . so i wanted to clarify what i meant by it is not a newer surgery bekka j
   — bekka K.




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