Protein absorbtion, sliders, drinking with food...

Drinking with food.

1. If you eat protein while there is already liquid in your pouch it will mix with the food and exit before the food has been exposed to stomach acid long enough to start breaking down the protein so that it can be absorbed.
2. If you don't leave the food (protein specifically) in your pouch sans liquid for 30 minutes, it won't be exposed to stomach acid long enough to break down so it can be absorbed in the (shortened) gut
3. Liquid will push the protein out of the pouch and you'll feel "empty" or hungry sooner (have more room for bad calories)

How does this relate to liquid meals? what about slider meals like yogurt or protein pudding?

I'm asking because at night, if it's not looking like I'm going to get my protein in, I'll often use a supplement like adding protein powder to yogurt, or drink a protein beverage. In this case, do I need to only take in as much as I suspect my pouch will easily hold, then wait half an hour? Or can I drink the 12 oz RTD protein shake in one sitting?

I'm not worried about the impact of eating other "bad" calories, I'm worried that I'll not absorb the much needed protein.

I also use the protein drinks as a way to satisfy my thirst after a workout while also providing my body with protein when it's most helpful.

Thoughts? Warnings?

I know Grim is a big proponent of keeping liquid separate from food but I'm not sure if it's to keep the pouch full as long as possible or if it's to help protein that's in the pouch get digested?

All liquids should be kept separate from food, period. Even slider food. So if you eat a yogurt, wait 30 minutes or more before drinking. If you eat a protein pudding, wait 30 minutes or more before drinking. Etc, etc.

A drink is a liquid whether is a protein drink, pop, water, juice, Gatorade or alcohol, your pouch is like a funnel, big opening on top, little opening at the bottom but open on both ends so drinks go right through, hence if you put liquids over food you push the food right out and you are hungry right away and looking for more food = more calories. Its dangerous territory to drink with meals.

Your statement "do I need to only take in as much as I suspect my pouch will easily hold." That is not a measurement. Either you are weighing or measuring not "guessing" what your pouch can hold. How much do you "think" your pouch can hold? 1/2 cup? A cup? Do you actually eat that much or more or less, who knows if you are not measuring.

I too along with Grim follow the guidelines that I am going to say 100% of WLS centres give their patients that is "wait at minimum 30 minutes or more after eating before drinking liquids." Takes practice to do this yes but in my opinion its part of being successful .

THANKS Daisy,

I don't mean can I drink with protein drinks, nor do I mean can I drink a protein drink with a meal.

I am asking about JUST drinking a protein drink or JUST eating a yogurt type food - since we know it goes in the top and out the bottom... can I drink the 12 oz. can serving or should I drink 4 oz. I do measure and I know that 4 oz of protein is about the max I can have in a half hour or I feel full. But even with measuring I am not sure how do "KNOW" how much Greek yogurt is actually staying inside my pouch. If I drink 4 oz of a Pure Protein can because 4 oz of dry food is my max right now, does that actually mean the pouch is "full" or did it just run out the other end? Am I wasting the protein drink if I sip down all 12 oz. in thirty minutes?

I count all the protein I eat, I'm just not sure how much of it is being absorbed...

I find the foods containing fluid confusing. Is yogurt magically different than the same weight in cheese with milk added in the form of a sip, and then all chewed together? If I take a sip of water to help chew up a dry piece of over cooked tuna steak, did I just flu**** out of my pouch? what about the more rare piece of tuna I ate a bite before? What level of water content makes something "bad" and a beverage vs nutrition?

When I have read Grim's take, it sounds much more like he is cautioning liquids because they will keep our pouch emptying too fast and we'll have room to eat (and probably will start to eat) more foods. That makes sense. But again, it seems like there has to be some kind of gray area...

I hate to think I"m throwing money down the drain when I drink 12 fluid oz and expect to be absorbing most of the 30g of whey protein.

Drink your 12 ounce protein drink all at once, or drink one ounce per hour for 12 hours. You'll absorb exactly the same amount of protein either way.

Sorry to be so dense, but I find this confusing as well. I keep a half hour pause between eating solid foods and drinking, but this discussion is making me wonder if there is any point to having protein drinks at all? I mix mine with water, and look forward to mixing it with my morning coffee. But is this just senselessly throwing product and money out the window? Is that protein being absorbed, or simply flushed away?

It's all absorbed.

Thank you!

Your #s 1 and 2 are not true, at all. If it were, we could eat as much as we wanted, and as long as we drank a lot along with it, we wouldn't gain weight. It's not true.

Simple carbs start to get broken down while they are still in our mouths. For protein and fats, all of the absorption and breakdown occurs in our intestines.

Number 3 is the one that counts.

If you make a day's portions in advance, and stick to them religiously, go ahead and drink with meals. You wouldn't be eating extra, so you won't gain. But you will never feel full, and will likely be miserable and hungry.

Fullness comes when our stomachs expand. It presses against a nerve, and sends a signal to our brains that we are full. It takes about 20 minutes for our brains to get the message. That's why we aren't supposed to eat too fast. We can be full long before our brains realize it. Then we feel sick.

But, you most likely don't make a pile of food before you start the day, and stick to it. So when you drink while eating, it washes the food out, and you have room for more. Being human, and formerly obese, you eat more. And more. And end up eating way too much, and gaining. To top it off, your stomach never expands, you never feel full, and you want still more. This is why it is so important not to drink while eating, and to wait a half hour afterwards, so your brain can be all happy.

These things are all true for both RNY and VSG, by the way. Drink too much while eating with a VSG and your pyloric valve will open. Then you have the equivalent of an RNY, but with more capacity, and no malabsorption.

Sit down with several large boxes of crackers some day, and plenty of whatever you like to drink. Eat the crackers, and drink plenty with it. You can eat all the crackers, all day long. And then be crying about how your WLS is broken, and you have no restriction.

Now sit down with some chicken and nothing to drink. Eat 3 or 4 ounces of chicken over 25 minutes or so. You'll feel like you just ate a 10 course Thanksgiving dinner.

I thought 1 and 2 sounded false as well. As far as I know, there actually isn't much acid in an RNY pouch at all and that's why we have to chew so much and also why RNY tends to cure GERD. I know the last time I threw up there wasn't hardly any acid taste.

The way I understand it is we chew and chew to get things small enough so that the mass can move into the intestine without causing undue stress/pain and then digestion proceeds in the intestine as you say. Now, the question I have is acid is produced as normal in the remnant stomach--is that released through the still extant pyloric valve into the intestine below the "Y" to aid in digestion? That's the way I think it works, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Jen

Just a point of clarification: there is some mechanical digestion/breakdown that's done in the stomach, but that's not necessary where liquids (like protein shakes) are concerned. This is how the bolus you swallow is turned into the chyme that passes into the intestines.