The musings of an Eighth Grader... or whatever you want to call me.

I love love love you analogy. 2 years post op I thought "I've got this" . I had to eat to maintain. Then year 3.. 4 ..5 happened... And **** hit the fan. I could not stop gaining even as I was limiting my food. I had to face reality and change, yet again, what I was eating and drinking. I was an eye opener. Huge one. Healthy eating was not enough.

I get pissed off when I see someone who is so early post op misleading others with their advice. And who is so arrogant at that at the same time.

>> I honestly don't understand why I seem to rub you and others the wrong way sooooo often. I'm hoping its just that print robs us of 80% of the communication's nuances and something is getting lost in translation. I swear to you I'm not a totally arrogant newb know-it-all.

Communication style has exactly NOTHING to do with it. It's 100% attitude and refusal to take sound advice.

Example:

Veterans: It's best to avoid alcohol after surgery due to needless calories and risk of addiction.

You: I don't care! I'm going to drink wine!

Example:

You, Monday: I'm losing slowly, probably because I eat too much and have carbs.

Veterans: You will lose more quickly if you eat less and have fewer carbs.

You, Tuesday: Nope, I know what I'm doing! Why am I losing so slowly?

Excellent points.

If a condition of being accepted into the fold is that I must accept and adhere to all advice from all veterans on all things WLS related, I'm doomed. I can't even manage to do that in my own religion

From a purely scientific standpoint, the veterans on this site are not a representative sample. The veterans here are AMAZING and desperately needed and the best available source of wisdom! But they have self selected to stay here and give of themselves so that others can learn, and the active veterans on the forums number less than 100. Where active means posting or responding to parts every week. This is too small to be considered a representative sample. There are studies available that suggest other approaches may be successful. From what I can find there are just not a lot of good studies that follow WLS patients long term. By good I mean controlled. It's hard to control what a person is actually eating vs what they say they're eating. So I come here, daily, for help.

OH, and these veterans who volunteer to herd cats like me, are my best hope. But I can't drink the KOOLADE and just blindly follow. And I'm sorry that you can't accept this about me. When I reject something you feel passionately about, I'm not rejecting YOU, I'm just choosing to accept a risk that only puts my health at risk.

Look at the alcoholism study. It's terrifying! There is a serious increased risk of developing alcoholism if you drink post RNY. I look at the study, I listen to those who have suffered first hand, yet I am still consuming alcohol. Why? Because it's important to me and per the study, it isn't leading to most, let alone all, RNY patients becoming alcoholics. It's a multiple in the risk, an exponential increase in risk. Worthy of serious consideration. And I have, and I continue to expose myself to this risk not because I think I'm immune, or special, or an exception, but because I believe that I've put controls in place to detect when I've crosseda line. And... It's my health I'm risking.

Good bless you!

~Rouge Cat

>> From a purely scientific standpoint, the veterans on this site are not a representative sample

You're dead right. A representative sample would be a group where about 50% have regained. So "ideally" you'd have a group where half of posters share the crappy advice that prevented them from maintaining. The selection bias among long-term patients on OH isn't a bug, it's a feature.

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>> There are studies available that suggest other approaches may be successful.

If you have citations, I'd love to see them. I've done plenty of literature review and have yet to find anything of the sort.

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>> It's hard to control what a person is actually eating vs what they say they're eating.

And yet, you're willing to believe that there are actually OH'ers who are speak the truth when they post about being able to eat high-carb and maintain? (Which I still haven't seen, BTW.)

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>> I'm just choosing to accept a risk that only puts my health at risk.

That's true-- until you start giving unqualified advice to others, or trying to put yourself out as a positive example. Then you're putting THEM at risk. THAT is what I (and others) have a problem with.

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>> I believe that I've put controls in place to detect when I've crossed a line.

Many of us had similar attitudes about our poor eating habits. Look where that got us!

It's been the history of OH to call out dangerous behavior/advice. Young surgery patients are precious. It's all overwhelming and there is a lot to learn to be successful.

Hi,

Great post.

Although I am a newbie to RNY, I have been on OH for 14 years on and off doling out advice on the lapband board for 5 years (I lost 154 pounds) on the sleeve board ( where I lost 72 pounds and regained 50 in 9 years) and now I am a student again on the RNY board.

For all three surgeries there is a common thread which is protein first, then veggies and if any space left a healthy carb.

I will freely admit that I am a foodie. Not volume but I love good food. ( i won Master chef at sea on a cruise ship once lol) I am always experimenting with food recipes and I am convinced that I will publish a bariatric cook book that actually makes sense for long term weight loss management one day.

What I fear most is reducing my metabolic set point by chronically keeping my caloric levels so low, eating only an Atkins like diet for perpetuity and not being able to enjoy my life and relationship with food limiting my intake to the same menu of cottage cheese, eggs, meat, fish and protein powder.. Yes, I will love being thin but I still fighting the notion of giving up all the delicious food that I have had the chance to taste from all over the world. I own a travel agency and a majority of my trips are food centric.

That terrifies me that I will be giving up all the other delicious foods that got me fat in the first place. Part of me rejects the notion that I can never have a piece of whole wheat toast or a slice of pizza if I want to stay thin. It makes me bitter to see my friends and family eat what they want. That is my 1st grader stomping my feet in protest.

So I sat down and did an honest assessment of why I gained weight over the last decade. Considering that I lost 175 pounds from my highest weight with a slow regain, I surmised that the first few years of weight liberation when I got to my low of 165 and size 10 pants was that I traded a food addiction to a drinking partying addiction. Had a crappy attorney boyfriend who wanted to party all the time. So there started the regain of about 20 pounds. Then diagnosis of 2 autoimmune disorders and anemia. Throw in some steroids. Another 10 pounds. Finally menopause and overeating and sedentary lifestyle Another 20 pounds in 5 years. So I stopped drinking alcohol for the most part, got married to a stable guy and trying this all over again due to chronic GERD, hernia and revision.

There is a part of me that believes once I get to goal that I should be able to have the occasional treat. I am hoping this doesnt lead me down the path of destruction or they find a cure in a decade or so for true weight loss that doesnt involve a surgical procedure. Nuff said. Purged for the day!!

Many of us have really tough stretches where we can gain a bunch of weight really fast. The really slow, long gains are harder to fight, I think. It's harder for us to wrap our heads around what went wrong, and how to fix it.

100 extra calories per day is a gain of 10 pounds in a year. 50 pounds in 5 years. And 100 calories is a nothing amount of food. A few extra crackers or nuts here, an extra slice of cheese, going just a little heavy on the salad dressing, and bam. It's soooooo easy to do.

And we can gain 50 pounds in 5 years, but not a single one of us is interested in waiting 5 years to take it back off.

This is hard . . .

9 years post op and I am now in maintenance. Back in maintenance. Maintaining now for close to a year. Again maintaining. And I can tell you that I do eat what I want, anything I want.... One time a week. When my weight is below my goal. Well below my "o **** I am too close to red line" goal. I weigh myself once a day. Every day when I am at home. Then consider the average. If I am close to the red line - there are no "free meal of whatever".

I maintain at 145-150. I don't want to lose past 145. It is not good for me, my frame, my body. Too low body fat% as it is. So when I wight goes down to 145-146...or drops below 145 - I really eat what I want as long as it doesn't make me sick too much. (Some food does not agree with me) I eat candies, and cookies, chocolate...nuts and fruits. At one time I lost down to 138 and that was way too low for me. So I slowly regained to 145.

There thing is - my skinny friends do that all the time. They monitor their weight. They are "on the diet" 95% of the time, they do moderate exercise, and they splurge 5% of the time. But if they gain 2 lbs - no more splurge, until the weight drops below their comfort level. None. Watching them was an eye opener. They eat slowly. They enjoy the food. If something does not taste good enough - they don't eat that. For them the calories are not worthy the food. When they are on a diet - they really are.

You can enjoy great food as long as you really can do tasting - or do that once in a while.

At one time I was 160 and size 8. Maintaining. I was ok with that. I was not willing to give up some food and drink to be skinny. It was working for me then. But I had other issues so I worked really hard to get down to 145-150.

You don't need to be "skinny mini" . You can decide where you need to maintain.

I feel like you were in my brain when you wrote this. I feel exactly the same way.

Excellent post!

I have now been in maintenance for longer than I was losing. You'd think I might have it figured out by now, but everyday is a new opportunity to learn something about my brain and my body (and on good days...how they work together).

I just don't have all the answers about this next phase. I struggle because I am a "rules follower" and maintenance has fuzzier rules than when I was in the losing phase. Is an occasional piece of whole grain toast okay every now and then? A cookie? How much protein should I have at this stage, daily? It's all trial and error with my body, my metabolism and my size, and I am figuring it out.

But lord knows, the stupidest thing I could have done at any point, was to blindly follow the guidelines given to me by my program, in lieu of ignoring the vets here who have already succeeded, long term. I got as far as I did because of the great advice and not assuming "my way" was the better way, just because I am part of a great surgical program.

I feel like there have been so many new posters here recently who get defensive and argumentative about why when they drink wine at 1 month post op its okay. Or why Mac and Cheese is an acceptable mushy. These are questions I am grappling with now at 2 years post op, but there ARE rules for the losing phase. Follow them while you still have a handbook, because later it gets harder... Grim is a successful post op who I idolize for his success, but he is 6'3" and I am 4'10", so we just can't eat the same stuff every day. Success is not one sized fits all in maintenance.