Perversion for beginners ---

phred
on 9/4/11 12:05 pm - CO
My thoughts on creation are secular:
That beings called biomolecular,
Owe their birth to the pang,
Of a really Big Bang,
Which must have been rather spectacular.

  If it feels good, do it!  And if it smells good, eat it!

Julie6
on 9/4/11 10:55 pm
I think believing in creation is much more spectacular.  Imagine out of nowhere God spoke the universe into existence.  God is awesome!
Julie Sadek    
Chana
on 9/5/11 12:26 am
I think that the two are not in opposition to each other.

If you'll forgive the length, I'll quote two thinkers who sum up rather nicely my belief in this area.

The great Jewish sage, Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon (aka Maimonides) who lived in the 12th century wrote plainly:  "The account of creation given in Scripture is not, as is generally believed, intended to be literal in all its parts"  Guide for the Perplexed 2:29.  He expounded  "Know that these prophecies and similar matters that we say are allegorical - our words are not a decree, for we are not basing ourselves on a prophecy making it known that they are allegorical, and we did not find a received tradition for the sages from the prophets that the details of these matters are allegorical.  Rather, I shall explain to you what brought us to this concept - and that is our efforts, and the efforts of select individuals, which is in contrast to the efforts of the masses.  For with the masses who are people of the Torah, that which is beloved to them and tasty to their folly is that they should place Torah and rational thinking as two opposite extremes, and will derive everythingimpossible as distinct from that which is reasonable and they say that it is a miracle, and they flee from someting being in accordance with natural law, whether with something recounted from past events, with something that is in the present, or with something which is said to happen in the future.  But we shall endeavor to integrate the Torah with rational thought, leading events according to the natural order wherever possible; only with something that is clarified to be a miracle and cannot be otherwise explained at all will we say that it is a miracle."  Letter Concerning the Resurrection of the Dead.

Arguable the pre-eminent Jewish philosopher of the 20th century, Rabbi Eliyahu Eliezer Dessler:  "...we must ask why the Torah describes it [creation] as taking six days.  The answer is that the Torah wishes to teach us a lesson in relative values.  Everything has value only in relation to its spiritual content.  Vast physical masses and vast expanses of space and time are of little significance if their spiritual content is small.  The whole physical universe exists as an environment for the spiritual life of the human being; this is its spiritual content.  When interpreting non-temporal creation in temporal terms the Torah deliberately contracts the time-scale compared with that which presents itself to the scientist in order to convey to us the relative insignificance of the material creation compared with the spiritual stature of man." 

Just one other observation:  The Torah had to be able to speak to the generations throughout the millenia.  Ancient man, with his knowledge of science, would not have been able to understand a science based explanation of creation.   Indeed it really wouldn't have been relevant in any event.  The grandeur, the majesty, the fact that G-d is the source of all beginnings - that is the point of the Creation story - not whether it was six days or six billion years. Understanding of science should increase one's awe of G-d, not dimini****

To be sure there are many different Jewish viewpoints on this, although I think this accurately presents the prevailing modern orthodox outlook as well as my own, albeit greatly simplified and incomplete. 
koshermama
on 9/5/11 2:25 am
G-d is the source of all beginnings - that is the point of the Creation story - not whether it was six days or six billion years.



Not to mention that a "day" to G-d could be a billion years to us!

HW 310, SW 307, CW 259, LW 7.5, Goal 150
    

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Chana
on 9/5/11 2:50 am
One other thing that has always interested me is the Rashi (early 16th century commentator for those who are unfamiliar) commentary on 1:14 in which he states that actually everything was created on the first day but merely fixed into place and function on the named day.  It seems to me that this synthesizes nicely with a big bang of matter and natural law which unfolds accordingly through an evolutionary process. 
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