Titantiff's study is a joke and dishonest

I want to point out how Titantiff is forcing her "survey" to be unbalanced towards people just loving their bands.  She knows full well what she is doing.

She is taking surveys of people four months post op, during the honeymoon period.  What study takes patients 4 months post op and determines the longevity of the surgery type?  None.  Studies are based on the outcomes over years, not 4 months.

I even suggested that she create two results, one including patients 4 months post op and one discarding all surveys for people under 2 years post op and she declined.  Obviously, she's forcing the results to favor the band.  This survey is a waste of time.  The proper way to do it would be to use the results of those that have actually had time to live with their surgery type, not those that are in the honeymoon stage.

Band stages:

0-6 months people are in love with their surgery type and in love with their surgeon
6-12 months people are realizing their surgeon isn't doing the work, they are but they still love their bands.
12-18 months people are starting to have problems but it's doable, the scale is moving.
18-24 months people are sick of the problems and getting revisions

Just how accurate is this "survey" going to be when she is including those in the honeymoon stage?  It's not going to be accurate.  This whole silly thing is so she can pretend most people just love their bands.

Bahhhh... it's manipulation and nothing else.  Heck, I would have said I loved my band at 4 months and it about killed me.

MidwesternGirl AZ Alberto Aceves M.D., F.A.C.S. Revision (12/06/06) Member Since: 10/04/07 [Latest Posts]

Post Date: 11/24/09 7:42 pm On November 24, 2009 at 7:39 PM Pacific Time, titantiff wrote: Sure- knock your sock off! Post it all over the place. You are doing the hard part for me. Will you just make sure it's the edited version that doesn't include my email? I this to be an transparant as you need. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ You did not answer my question... do you want this balanced or not? Yes, I am putting you on the spot. ;o) The band got me to goal, the sleeve will keep me there. From a size 22/24 to a size 4. See my profile for how to research a Mexican LAP BAND surgeon, advice for newbies (Feb), motivation for all of us (May), and how to research a Mexican GASTRIC SLEEVE surgeon 3/09.

titantiff Moscow, ID Thomas R Brown Lap Band (10/14/08) Member Since: 08/11/08 [Latest Posts]

Post Date: 11/25/09 6:43 am YES (SURE)- Obviously. I'm getting replys from people who failed their bands, people who's bands have failed them, people *****vised, People who damn near died. This was exactly what I was looking for. I knew they were out there and I'm getting my numbers. Yes- I believe I'm getting the balanced results I was hoping for. You may not believe me, but I was asking for legitimate answers from current and previous lap band patients in hopes of forming my own opinion. Tiff  Dr. Jonathan Spitz- Spokane Starting  298/ Current  230/ Goal 165 9.0 cc's in a 14cc AP Large band.

MidwesternGirl AZ Alberto Aceves M.D., F.A.C.S. Revision (12/06/06) Member Since: 10/04/07 [Latest Posts]

Post Date: 11/25/09 6:52 am On November 25, 2009 at 6:43 AM Pacific Time, titantiff wrote: YES (SURE)- Obviously. I'm getting replys from people who failed their bands, people who's bands have failed them, people *****vised, People who damn near died. This was exactly what I was looking for. I knew they were out there and I'm getting my numbers. Yes- I believe I'm getting the balanced results I was hoping for. You may not believe me, but I was asking for legitimate answers from current and previous lap band patients in hopes of forming my own opinion. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ HA!  You are not.  You are making it balanced in favor of banding and certainly not truth.  You are spinning your wheels.  When you read a legit study it does not take people four months out and decide that is the final outcome of a study.  It's done over a period of YEARS.  You are taking results of those four months out.  EVERYONE at four months is in love with whatever surgery type they have.  The scale is moving and they are thrilled.  YOU know that. Unless you discard those that are not even at the one year point, the point that they have had time to actually live with the band this "survey" is nothing but a joke.  A way for you to run around telling everyone that the band is wonderful when you actually knew that you played with it to suit your own needs, the need to prove to the world that the band has some positive use. You are manipulating this instead of doing something a little more honest and balanced.  You are not a stupid person, just manipulative. ;o) Why not prove me wrong?  Do this both ways.  Take a survery of those from four months on and do another just figuring in those at say... 2 years post op?  You know, like how REAL studies do it.  If you don't do this then you must admit that you are manipulating this study to suit your own needs. The band got me to goal, the sleeve will keep me there. From a size 22/24 to a size 4. See my profile for how to research a Mexican LAP BAND surgeon, advice for newbies (Feb), motivation for all of us (May), and how to research a Mexican GASTRIC SLEEVE surgeon 3/09.

titantiff Moscow, ID Thomas R Brown Lap Band (10/14/08) Member Since: 08/11/08 [Latest Posts]	Post Date: 11/25/09 7:01 am Great opinion...You have yours and I have mine. I guess we're stuck with each other and I'll deal with it. Slanted results and all. Tiff  Dr. Jonathan Spitz- Spokane Starting  298/ Current  230/ Goal 165 9.0 cc's in a 14cc AP Large band.

MidwesternGirl AZ Alberto Aceves M.D., F.A.C.S. Revision (12/06/06) Member Since: 10/04/07 [Latest Posts]

Post Date: 11/25/09 7:03 am On November 25, 2009 at 7:01 AM Pacific Time, titantiff wrote: Great opinion...You have yours and I have mine. I guess we're stuck with each other and I'll deal with it. Slanted results and all. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Nawwww, not opinion at all.  It's a  matter of doing it the right way.  What study that you have seen takes people at four months post op and calls it a final study? Why not do it both ways?  You know full well why you aren't doing it both ways.  You aren't doing it both ways because you know it won't show the band in a good light. I have lost a great deal of respect for you.  I thought you were a little more honest than this. The band got me to goal, the sleeve will keep me there. From a size 22/24 to a size 4. See my profile for how to research a Mexican LAP BAND surgeon, advice for newbies (Feb), motivation for all of us (May), and how to research a Mexican GASTRIC SLEEVE surgeon 3/09.

Just a question.....

Why is there all this "My weight loss surgery is better than yours" crap??

WHO CARES!!  I had Lap Band,  one of my close friends had RNY.   RNY was not for me. Lap Band was not for her.  Why does one have to be better than the other???

They're all tools to help us get healthy and where we want to be.

 

This is why:

www.obesityhelp.com/forums/amos/4070316/For-those-who-prefer -science-to-water-cooler-conversations/#33104605

~~I don't think it is always a matter of "My surgery type is better than your surgery type" but instead I just want people to do their research.  Many people get the band believing it is the safest surgery type long term and it isn't.  They are getting a band based on bad info, info they are picking up right here on these boards.  If the truth isn't put out there how will they know?  Many do not know how to read studies they find on line and they do not know how these studies are done.

If someone wants the safest surgery type long term they need to do their research and figure out just what it is.  But it isn't the band.

I have been reading these boards for 3 years now and I can't count the number of people that have taken out loans, dipped into their kids college funds, refinanced their homes, went into debt to get WLS just to lose their band a year or two later.  They don't have the money for revision so now they are out a LOT of money and no resources for other options.

THAT is what I want to prevent.~~

 Not only that (although its an excellent point) but what does it do to a person emotionally?  Most people don't go into WLS casually.  It takes a lot of soul-searching and self-examination to get to the point where you feel like WLS is your only option.  For me, I know that I felt like a failure.  I knew it was the only way but still I felt ashamed.  On the other hand, you're suddenly filled with hope.  Its a brand new start and motivation is high.  You don't feel like anything can stop you.  I can't speak for anyone else but I know for me, if I lose the weight and then something "shifts" and I gain some or most of it back, I would feel worse about myself than I did before.  You're investing so much into yourself and your future, it is heart breaking and I would never want to see anyone go through that.  

Another emotional aspect is all these people that never lost it to begin with.  I'm thinking of one person for example that has lost somewhere around 30# and she's been banded well over a year.  She has no sweet spot.  I've watched her go through all these emotional battles first blaming herself, feeling like even WLS would not help.  Finally she realizes it is not her fault, she has no sweet spot.  She did not fail the band, the band failed her.

Then you have the idiot types who run around claiming that if something goes wrong with the band it must be the person's fault.  Even Terry Simpson makes that claim.  He says there is a minimal chance of anything going wrong with the band if it is not abused.  WTH?  So 25% of people having their bands removed are doing something wrong?  Total crap.

www.obesityhelp.com/forums/AZ/4055401/TEMPE-SUPPORT-GROUP/#3 3053492

You get surgery, you are on an emotional high, you feel and believe you will lose weight and be normal size and whammo!  It doesn't happen.

All these self pay people, they often times get a band because it is the cheapest surgery usually.  They have no clue what their future will hold.  The slips that need surgical correction, the port flips, the detached tubing that needs repair.  Anything mechanical with the band can only be repaired with another surgery and if they don't have the money, they are out of luck.

I understand your point.  However, if people are interested in having any type of WLS, and they dont do their proper research on their own, that's their problem. I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but there is NO WAY IN HELL that I wouldve went through what I did without thoroughly researching it.   

It is also the surgeon's responsibility to make sure the patient is well aware of what will be going on.

If anyone is going to listen to some random Joe about their experience, and base their decision on that, then they're just plain dumb.    They need to speak to clinical professionals only.  

These forums are here to support each other and ask questions, yes I get that too.  I think its great that you want to help as many people as you can and steer them in the right direction, but if someone is willing to go through the things that we've all gone through, and their only research is from a public forum, there's definately a bigger problem than just their obesity.

Let me ask you something... Have you read the forums for a long time?  Have you seen the writing skills people have?  People that can't spell four letter words.  Many are very uneducated.  I have read posts that I didn't know what they were trying to ask.

Not everyone is well educated, not everyone can read and write well.  Not everyone can read a study.  But... if they come here we can "dumb it down" for them.  We can explain it.

If a person goes to a band mill they are going to only get band info.  If they go to a sleeve mill they are only going to get sleeve info, etc.  I'll show you an example of what I refer to, check out this band mill website:

doctorsimpson.com/bandvbypass.php

Look at how biased this website is.  It's a joke!  He is comparing risks of three procedures to show how much safer the band is than bypass or DS.  Notice he doesn't even mention the sleeve because that is the surgery type with the fewest long term complications.  And the band?  He doesn't even mention slips, erosion, port infections, port flips, stoma spasms, band intolerance.  Does this look balanced to you?

For a sleeve mill, bypass mill, or DS mill.. it's going to be the same thing.  Depend on doctors? Hardly.  Not unless they do all the procedures.  Any newbie going to the above website is going to walk away thinking they only way they will survive WLS is to get a band.  That's not fair to patients.  But people believe they can trust their surgeon.  Maybe they can for safe surgery but not for information.

Look at all the people that come to the boards and say.. I'm two weeks post op, what can I eat?  They have no idea because nobody told them at their MD office.  Or the people that are shocked that at 1 year they struggle to get to a sweet spot and they had no idea this could happen.

I did use the boards for part of my research.  I wanted to know what it is like living with "X" surgery type.  I asked a LOT of people but as a noob I didn't really stop to think I should only ask those at least one year post op.  All newbies love their surgery type, I didn't realize how much that changes over time.  I make it a point to show them... things change!  It's not like the honeymoon stage long term but most posting are under a year post op.

I agree with people needing to do their own research!  I agree totally.  But there are one heck of a lot of people out there that honestly don't know how.  Should we just tell them tough, it's your problem?  Are you serious?

 I definitely think you MUST use a public forum as a PART of your research.  The medical professionals who advise us about these procedures don't know what it is like to live day in and day out with any of these surgeries unless they have personally gone through them  themselves.  I needed and wanted to hear about other experiences in order to determine if a type of surgery was something that I thought that I could live with.  Clinical professionals don't always have all the facts.  They aren't gods.  I mean we see this every day when people are being told by their doctors or nutritionists that children's vitamins are an acceptable regimen.  Yes, I trust my surgeon but it is my responsibility to oversee the standard of care that I receive.  

When I started out on my journey, I attended a seminar at a hospital that I thought would discuss all or at least most weight loss surgeries.  When I got there, I found that it was only about the Lap-Band and while my PCP advised me against getting banded, I wanted to stay and at least listen to the surgeon's presentation.  There was a woman and her husband there who were at least 400 pounds each.  The woman said that her sister, a nurse, had the lapband surgery a few months prior and still hadn't lost any weight so she was worried if the surgery would actually work for her.  The doctor explained that to the woman that her sister was doing something wrong, that SHE was failing her surgery and refused to discuss it any further.   I know that is only one surgeon but my point is why take the word of this one clinical professional who seems disinterested in the discussing real life concerns.  

Surgeons are businessmen, too.  They're selling services and looking to make a profit.  They're not going to necessarily "sell" you something that they can't deliver.  That's great that you put so much blind faith into what you're being told but there are so many factors that go into health care these days.  The best advice is to be your own advocate and be as informed as possible and stand up for what your beliefs are.  

I know, truth and honesty... it's a horror.