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Topic: RE: OsteoArthritis
I am right there with you on this Malkee!
I went to University of Washington - did a few sessions, then laughingly, they said I was already in decent shape (was not breathless from walking - it was more for cardio therapy for the surgery). I went to a closer PT Clinic, did their program for three months, exercise & Ultrasound. I was not getting any imrpovement - their words - so I said I would continue the work I do daily, and maybe check back after Weight Loss Surgery.
The main component to weight loss & living for that matter, is movement. I get it. The pain wears me out, hurts, frustrates me, then I fight to not lose momentum. I made a decission yesterday, the Tramadol isn't enough. On my next appointment, I will ask if there is another drug between Tramadol & Oxycodone - if I can try that. If not, I will go back on a daily ONE pill of Oxycodone. I am sure that if I do not just take it to be taking it, I could posibly take it every other day. My big question to her will be: If I do not feel the pain, am able to exercise more, would I be doing any additional damage? I think this is an improtant question.
Without pain, weightloss was easier, sigh! Weird, when I lost 135 pounds 13 years ago, it was a breeze! I have only lost 17 pounds in five months - sad.
Brenda : )~
I went to University of Washington - did a few sessions, then laughingly, they said I was already in decent shape (was not breathless from walking - it was more for cardio therapy for the surgery). I went to a closer PT Clinic, did their program for three months, exercise & Ultrasound. I was not getting any imrpovement - their words - so I said I would continue the work I do daily, and maybe check back after Weight Loss Surgery.
The main component to weight loss & living for that matter, is movement. I get it. The pain wears me out, hurts, frustrates me, then I fight to not lose momentum. I made a decission yesterday, the Tramadol isn't enough. On my next appointment, I will ask if there is another drug between Tramadol & Oxycodone - if I can try that. If not, I will go back on a daily ONE pill of Oxycodone. I am sure that if I do not just take it to be taking it, I could posibly take it every other day. My big question to her will be: If I do not feel the pain, am able to exercise more, would I be doing any additional damage? I think this is an improtant question.
Without pain, weightloss was easier, sigh! Weird, when I lost 135 pounds 13 years ago, it was a breeze! I have only lost 17 pounds in five months - sad.
Brenda : )~
Topic: RE: OsteoArthritis
Like you, I am hoping the surgery will reduce the pain on my knee.
Can't help thinking some therapy might help a little. I just do simple exercises, mostly on my back, sometimes with 2 or 3 lb weights on my ankle. It's not perfect but it's helped a lot.
One thing: my therapist is in his 40s...his philosophy is that if you push too hard at the beginning it's one step forward and two steps back. So he says he just takes one and a half steps forward. I went to one therapist in his 20s who was really gung ho and pushed you...but the result was a tremendous amount of pain the next day. So you might want to consider somebody who takes the easy approach. I only say this because it has helped me.
Let me get through the RNY before I go on to the knee replacement. I am a little worried about surgery since you can't take NSAIDS afterward. I usually take three at night to sleep. Tylenol generally isn't as effective, but perhaps it will help.
Can't help thinking some therapy might help a little. I just do simple exercises, mostly on my back, sometimes with 2 or 3 lb weights on my ankle. It's not perfect but it's helped a lot.
One thing: my therapist is in his 40s...his philosophy is that if you push too hard at the beginning it's one step forward and two steps back. So he says he just takes one and a half steps forward. I went to one therapist in his 20s who was really gung ho and pushed you...but the result was a tremendous amount of pain the next day. So you might want to consider somebody who takes the easy approach. I only say this because it has helped me.
Let me get through the RNY before I go on to the knee replacement. I am a little worried about surgery since you can't take NSAIDS afterward. I usually take three at night to sleep. Tylenol generally isn't as effective, but perhaps it will help.
Topic: RE: OsteoArthritis
First off -- OUCH! Man, you have a bad one. I hope you get your new knee ;)
As for PT, yup. I have had it five different times - done ultra sound, iontophoesis, casting, supports, swimming, stretches, you name it, I have had it perpetrated on me ;)
It bums me out, as I was at a smaller size when it all happened - so I have very quickly gained back the original 135 pounds lost - and THEN SOME... Ah boogers!
The buggaboo with my leg is that I have been told it is doubtful much could be done if & when I get to a "normal" weight, but my thoughts are: If I have less weight pushing down, maybe the pain will be tolerable. Sad, but I figure I was able to make it 14 years with my ex husband & 8 of those HIS MOTHER lived with us -- I can stand a LOT of pain (ha ha ha!!!)
The big problem with me - I have ALWAYS been a "large land mammal," and really forget I should not do a lot of the activities I do ;) Oh well -- I guess it will be some other 300 pound woman on waterskis!!! Thanks for chiming in -- and I hope you get your pain resolved!
Brenda : )~
As for PT, yup. I have had it five different times - done ultra sound, iontophoesis, casting, supports, swimming, stretches, you name it, I have had it perpetrated on me ;)
It bums me out, as I was at a smaller size when it all happened - so I have very quickly gained back the original 135 pounds lost - and THEN SOME... Ah boogers!
The buggaboo with my leg is that I have been told it is doubtful much could be done if & when I get to a "normal" weight, but my thoughts are: If I have less weight pushing down, maybe the pain will be tolerable. Sad, but I figure I was able to make it 14 years with my ex husband & 8 of those HIS MOTHER lived with us -- I can stand a LOT of pain (ha ha ha!!!)
The big problem with me - I have ALWAYS been a "large land mammal," and really forget I should not do a lot of the activities I do ;) Oh well -- I guess it will be some other 300 pound woman on waterskis!!! Thanks for chiming in -- and I hope you get your pain resolved!
Brenda : )~
Topic: RE: OsteoArthritis
This may be a dumb question, Brena, but have you tried physical therapy??
I have meniscus that's torn in two places in my right knee and the pain was gut-wrenching before I started therapy. Most of my exercises are done lying down, but it's made the hugest difference in my ability to walk painlessly. (Cortisone also helped, but as you noted, it's time-sensitive.)
My left knee is also screwed up -- the last 30 lbs. did it to me...but I have gotten some help, even though the ortho surgeon said arthroscopic would do no good and the only thing that will permanently solve the problem is a knee replacement.
Just thought I'd mention it. Apologies if you've gone down this route before. But it might be worth a shot.
I have meniscus that's torn in two places in my right knee and the pain was gut-wrenching before I started therapy. Most of my exercises are done lying down, but it's made the hugest difference in my ability to walk painlessly. (Cortisone also helped, but as you noted, it's time-sensitive.)
My left knee is also screwed up -- the last 30 lbs. did it to me...but I have gotten some help, even though the ortho surgeon said arthroscopic would do no good and the only thing that will permanently solve the problem is a knee replacement.
Just thought I'd mention it. Apologies if you've gone down this route before. But it might be worth a shot.
Topic: Knee Problems pre-surgery
My surgery is two weeks away and I am concerned because my knees are not in great shape. I recently had cortisone shots in both knees recently and am currently in physical therapy. The orthopedic surgeon told me I would need knee replacements in a few years. Anyway, I have heavy duty on the advil of late which I know has to end soon.(I have a torn meniscus in one knee at least, and the surgeon says arthroscopic surgery won't help.) Tylenol generally doesn't work for me. Without treatment, I basically can't walk, and I am concerned about avoiding blood clots post surgery. I will discuss this with my physician when I meet with him next week but I thought I would ask here to see if anyone has any input or suggestions.
Topic: RE: OsteoArthritis
Oh, there are constantly threads about RNYers and constipation! Do you read the Main board much? How about the RNY board? Come visit the DS board, too.
Lowering the absorption does make the body less efficient, and the DS does that more than the RNY does. Most DSers have 2 BMs a day---but most of us have them first thing in the AM, so it's not like we're on the toilet all day. (*grin*)
No one really knows exactly how much malabsorption of protein and complex carbs there is with any form of WLS, and I'm not certain there's an accurate way to test it. The fat per centages I mentioned were pretty easy to do, with a fecal fat test. (This is sometimes done on 'normal' people for various reasons.) It's estimated that DSers only absorb about half the protein and about 60% of the complex carbs we eat, but the RNYers seem to absorb more than we do, having less bypassed. The protein 'goals' DSers shoot for are 100 grams a day, minimum, while the RNYers shoot for 60 grams. A 'normal' healthy women should get about 50-60 grams, so---I take that to mean that the RNYers are absorbing nearly all the protein they eat, or at least their doctors think so. (*grin*)
Sometimes my pain IS visible to the naked eye---or it should be, when I'm hobbling across the parking lot. (*grin*) Sometimes I can walk normally, but sometimes I look like Chester from Gunsmoke.
Hang onto the optimism! And seriously, do come visit the DS board, and www.dsfacts.com
You may still decide the RNY is best for you, but make certain you know ALL the facts about both it and the DS before you go under the knife. There's a ****load (pun intended) of misinformation out there about the DS, and sadly a lot of it comes from medical 'professionals' who simply don't know the facts. Even more sadly, some of it comes from WL surgeons who don't have the skills to do the DS, or the inclination to learn.
I will say that the DS is NOT for everyone. It DOES require life-long diligence in taking vitamins and supplements, and getting regular lab work. (Of course, the RNY does, too, but it'll take you longer to die from neglect with the RNY. *grin*) And since it's less well-known, each of us has to be our own health-care advocate---but it sounds to me like you'd be ideal DS material.
Lowering the absorption does make the body less efficient, and the DS does that more than the RNY does. Most DSers have 2 BMs a day---but most of us have them first thing in the AM, so it's not like we're on the toilet all day. (*grin*)
No one really knows exactly how much malabsorption of protein and complex carbs there is with any form of WLS, and I'm not certain there's an accurate way to test it. The fat per centages I mentioned were pretty easy to do, with a fecal fat test. (This is sometimes done on 'normal' people for various reasons.) It's estimated that DSers only absorb about half the protein and about 60% of the complex carbs we eat, but the RNYers seem to absorb more than we do, having less bypassed. The protein 'goals' DSers shoot for are 100 grams a day, minimum, while the RNYers shoot for 60 grams. A 'normal' healthy women should get about 50-60 grams, so---I take that to mean that the RNYers are absorbing nearly all the protein they eat, or at least their doctors think so. (*grin*)
Sometimes my pain IS visible to the naked eye---or it should be, when I'm hobbling across the parking lot. (*grin*) Sometimes I can walk normally, but sometimes I look like Chester from Gunsmoke.
Hang onto the optimism! And seriously, do come visit the DS board, and www.dsfacts.com
You may still decide the RNY is best for you, but make certain you know ALL the facts about both it and the DS before you go under the knife. There's a ****load (pun intended) of misinformation out there about the DS, and sadly a lot of it comes from medical 'professionals' who simply don't know the facts. Even more sadly, some of it comes from WL surgeons who don't have the skills to do the DS, or the inclination to learn.
I will say that the DS is NOT for everyone. It DOES require life-long diligence in taking vitamins and supplements, and getting regular lab work. (Of course, the RNY does, too, but it'll take you longer to die from neglect with the RNY. *grin*) And since it's less well-known, each of us has to be our own health-care advocate---but it sounds to me like you'd be ideal DS material.
Topic: RE: OsteoArthritis
I hate to say something so "punny," but in my head I heard myself muttering "crap...." You are the first person to ever tell me RNY patients tend towards constipation, ugh. I was under the assumption that lowering the percentage of absorption would make my body less efficient - in a way. And here, I thought I had done my homework...
I turn 43 next month, so I feel as you do, need to take the weight down significantly, to relieve some of the pain. I realize that even having my body under compression all my life may have strengthened my bones & muscles, but the joints really aren't built to carry this much weight. Too bad I did not get serious sooner.
HUGS to you MsBatt! I am sorry about your constant pain, too. Sucks, and no one can see it with the naked eye, so I just try to grin & bear it. Sadly, it is the one co-morbidity that cannot be denied that is substantially caused by the weight alone. Diabetes and high blood pressure (etc.) can happen to average, "normal" weight folks, but it is seriously a matter of time when joints eventually wear out. I spent DECADES with my head in the sand -- I had been "healthy," strong, and fat. Time showed my arrogance. Hindsight is a powerful thing. Optimism is also powerful...
B : )~
I turn 43 next month, so I feel as you do, need to take the weight down significantly, to relieve some of the pain. I realize that even having my body under compression all my life may have strengthened my bones & muscles, but the joints really aren't built to carry this much weight. Too bad I did not get serious sooner.
HUGS to you MsBatt! I am sorry about your constant pain, too. Sucks, and no one can see it with the naked eye, so I just try to grin & bear it. Sadly, it is the one co-morbidity that cannot be denied that is substantially caused by the weight alone. Diabetes and high blood pressure (etc.) can happen to average, "normal" weight folks, but it is seriously a matter of time when joints eventually wear out. I spent DECADES with my head in the sand -- I had been "healthy," strong, and fat. Time showed my arrogance. Hindsight is a powerful thing. Optimism is also powerful...
B : )~
Topic: RE: OsteoArthritis
You do know that the RNY causes constipation, don't you? And that you do absorb MORE with the RNY than with the DS, right? Especially fat---'normal' people absorb about 92%, RNYers absorb around 62%, and DSers absorb a whopping 19%. I see many, many posts from RNYers who talk about living on laxatives, and having one BM a week.
I am SO sorry you're in such pain. I have a lot of chronic pain myself, but not as bad as yours. I will say that losing weight certainly HELPED, but I still take double the 'recommended' dose of NSAIDs and Tramadol every day. (Double NSAIDs, not Tramadol.) The first 75-80 pounds did the most good, but every pound since has helped, too. I'm still putting off hacing both my knees replaced---they tell me the longer I can hold out the better, since the replacement knees have a limited lifespan and I'm only 52. At this point, my feet are really giving me more pain than my knees, and there's nothing they can do about that.
I am SO sorry you're in such pain. I have a lot of chronic pain myself, but not as bad as yours. I will say that losing weight certainly HELPED, but I still take double the 'recommended' dose of NSAIDs and Tramadol every day. (Double NSAIDs, not Tramadol.) The first 75-80 pounds did the most good, but every pound since has helped, too. I'm still putting off hacing both my knees replaced---they tell me the longer I can hold out the better, since the replacement knees have a limited lifespan and I'm only 52. At this point, my feet are really giving me more pain than my knees, and there's nothing they can do about that.
Topic: RE: OsteoArthritis
MsBatt --
Nope, RNY, for a number of reasons, I actually do need to limit absorption. I have chronic constipation and my body holds onto EVERYTHING until completely used up. I am looking forward to "voiding solid waste" more than once every OTHER day (sometimes three days without elimination). Sounds blunt, but I have done a lot of research - I have a lot of medical factors against me, including too much iron in my blood.
I have tried Lidoderm, nitroglycerin (for improved blood flow to affected area), Keprocaine, ketoprofen, currently Volatren... My "****tail" of 800 mg IB with THREE Extra Strength Tylenol chasers, Oxycodone (my FAVORITE), Tramadol, Nabumetone, I know I am forgetting a few, but you get the idea ;)
The two latest Tramadol & Nabumetone is my attempt to find some relief without going the "hardcore" route. Oxycodone is fabulous for me -- actually like "speed", but I want to keep away from true Opiates -- hence Tramadol. The pain is incredible, but until I lose a significant amount of weight, I am trying to find something to make movement tolerable. I also take Chondroitan, MSM, and Glucosamine. I probably have the most expensive pee of any of my friends, but I am willing to take anything to make my situation better -- well, actually, NOT anything - I won't use illicit drugs or alcohol to bring relief ;)
I have had an Upper GI to make sure there is no damage from the YEARS of NSAID use, and I don't even have a hiatil hernia. When I busted up my leg, I had it casted twice, given lifts for my shoes, outfitted myself with superior foot ware, but I have gotten fatter & the pain grows worse. I have seen four specialists, the prognosis - 95% FAILURE rate for surgery. This, even IF I lost all my weight. But, I keep trying to move forward.
There are days all I want to do is cry. I feel like giving up some moments, just to pick myself up, dust myself off, and tell myself to be a "big girl". My primary doctor says she doesn't know how I do it, I just laugh -- "I take pain well!" Both times I was in labor, I had nurses tell me I couldn't be -- until I was examined -- showing I was dilated to 6 cm!!! After seven years of constant pain, I am just feeling tired of the battle.
Thanks for the reply!!! Yup, I have tried a lot. Guess I am stubborn :)~
Brenda : )~
Nope, RNY, for a number of reasons, I actually do need to limit absorption. I have chronic constipation and my body holds onto EVERYTHING until completely used up. I am looking forward to "voiding solid waste" more than once every OTHER day (sometimes three days without elimination). Sounds blunt, but I have done a lot of research - I have a lot of medical factors against me, including too much iron in my blood.
I have tried Lidoderm, nitroglycerin (for improved blood flow to affected area), Keprocaine, ketoprofen, currently Volatren... My "****tail" of 800 mg IB with THREE Extra Strength Tylenol chasers, Oxycodone (my FAVORITE), Tramadol, Nabumetone, I know I am forgetting a few, but you get the idea ;)
The two latest Tramadol & Nabumetone is my attempt to find some relief without going the "hardcore" route. Oxycodone is fabulous for me -- actually like "speed", but I want to keep away from true Opiates -- hence Tramadol. The pain is incredible, but until I lose a significant amount of weight, I am trying to find something to make movement tolerable. I also take Chondroitan, MSM, and Glucosamine. I probably have the most expensive pee of any of my friends, but I am willing to take anything to make my situation better -- well, actually, NOT anything - I won't use illicit drugs or alcohol to bring relief ;)
I have had an Upper GI to make sure there is no damage from the YEARS of NSAID use, and I don't even have a hiatil hernia. When I busted up my leg, I had it casted twice, given lifts for my shoes, outfitted myself with superior foot ware, but I have gotten fatter & the pain grows worse. I have seen four specialists, the prognosis - 95% FAILURE rate for surgery. This, even IF I lost all my weight. But, I keep trying to move forward.
There are days all I want to do is cry. I feel like giving up some moments, just to pick myself up, dust myself off, and tell myself to be a "big girl". My primary doctor says she doesn't know how I do it, I just laugh -- "I take pain well!" Both times I was in labor, I had nurses tell me I couldn't be -- until I was examined -- showing I was dilated to 6 cm!!! After seven years of constant pain, I am just feeling tired of the battle.
Thanks for the reply!!! Yup, I have tried a lot. Guess I am stubborn :)~
Brenda : )~
Topic: RE: OsteoArthritis
Brenda, which form of WLS are you having? I surely HOPE it's the DS!!! Not only is the DS the surgery with the very BEST long-term, maintained weight loss---especially for those of us with a starting BMI greater than 50---it will also allow you to continue to take NSAIDs once you're healed from surgery. (You can't do that with the RNY, alas.) I know that *I* will always need my Aleve.
Have you tried the Lidoderm pain patches? Very good for localized pain. I also use a cream called keprocaine.
Have you tried the Lidoderm pain patches? Very good for localized pain. I also use a cream called keprocaine.
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