Protein Intake - conflicting information, need clarification.

Question on protein intake - At the very beginning,after my DS in 2009, I got the number 90-100g of protein intake daily.  To me this would make sense in terms of intake, since we need to overcome the 50-60% malabsorption rate for protein to get the 75 to 90 grams we need (according to my "manual").  Can someone enlighten me please?  I know that anytime I go below that intake, I start getting that "tingly" feeling in my legs I had when I was PCM last year in my labs after my Mom died.

I had my DS at St. Vincent's. I got jumped by a NUT, telling me I was going to ruin my kidneys.

Edited to add: My total protein and prealbumin levels are "within normal limits", but just barely. 

Nutrition gurus - I will be happy to scan in my latest labs for a once over, if you're willing.

I have always heard 100 grams for DSes.  I have no idea how the kidneys are affected (whether they're still involved with processing the protein, or because half isn't absorbed anyway, it doesn't matter).... but I do know that protein issues are very real possible side-effects for DSers who don't get their protein in.

 

 I seem to remember that there is a slight increase in risk for kidney stones with the DS, but I have no idea if it's protein-consumption related.  I want to say it had to do with the type of calcium supplement used, but it's been a while since I read the info... so I could easily be wrong.

I can't speak for her now, but I was really shocked at how ill-informed the nutritionist at my revision surgeon's practice was 5 years ago with regarding the DS.  She was saying stuff that was so wrong to a potential DS patient, tha tI had to interrupt.

Of course, she did just tell me to take 2,000 IU of Vitamin D when my D just tested very low and my PTH high.  (Compared to Vitalady's advice of 50,000 IU twice per week the last time they were this low--and that resolved it.)  I replied back that I was already taking 5,000 IU/day (I'm a VSGer), so should I go up to 10,000 IU.... she never replied.  

Sami-

I've got issues with D, too!  I was taking 50,000 IU *daily*, in conjunction with my calcium and magnesium ( I always take them together)  and..I was taking 200mg Zinc as well.   I still came out with high PTH (an indicator of bone leaching, bone scan verified osteopenia), low zinc, low D  in my last labs. I must be completely depleted in terms of Vit. D, but, I don't have any of the symptoms that go along with Vit. D deficiency.

Nevertheless, my labs were  still better than six months ago, where every d**n thing tanked!  ( a bit of exaggeration, but PCM is not  to be played with!)

I'll have to check, but I think the citrates have a tendency to leave sedimentation behind, which would make sense in terms of kidney stone formation.

I know that the amount of protein you are suppose to have has to do with your body mass index, weight and how active you are for those who do not have the DS. Around 75 a day for a normal person. If we absorb only 50% then that would of course put me at taking 150 a day (if I were normal) rarely do people actually get what they need even when they are not DSers. I keep my intake right around 100-130 a day and try not to stress. My hair is healthy, my nails are growing like crazy and are pretty and thick. I feel good. I imagine your CC would have some play as well. /shrug. 

As long as my nails are growing like they are and my hair then I know I am getting enough. 

Labs aren't necessary for this one.  Just like fat, what you don't absorb can't hurt you.  We eat tons of fat and have low cholesterol.  The DS is a YMMV surgery and the docs don't know everything. 12 or 13 years ago when I was learning about surgery I was told 60 to 80 gr protein per day.  Today my doc tells his patients to shoot for 100 gr per day.  DS nutrition has changed quite a bit in the past decade and a half.  Your protein numbers are barely within normal limits so it follows that you are getting just barely enough protein.

We scare NUTS.  Our diet and supplement regimes would be toxic for some people.  Let's face it, NUT is an easy job.  All you have to do is spout the 'company line'.  They make a living telling people to avoid all the foods they love.  Over the years I have met very few who are capable of critical thought.  They live, eat, think, and breathe in the box.  It's safe there.

Our medical professionals don't know all the answers.  They make educated guesses.  You would be amazed to learn how much of what we are told is based on beliefs and guesses instead of cold hard facts.  Why?  Follow the money.  Who funds studies?  The NIH and drug companies.  And a drug company isn't going to fund a study that isn't going to lead to their next big buck drug.  And you can't patent vitamins.  Plus docs love the glamour studies that look good on paper.  Studying poop to see what is absorbed isn't at the top of their wish list either.

The concept of WLS began as an educated guess.  It was based on battlefield injuries that required intestinal reconstruction.  Soldiers who had been 'gut shot' and survived.  There was a time when it was common knowledge that people who lost a stomach or a part of their intestines were going to die.  But they didn't and over time docs noticed quite a few of these people stayed thinner and healthier than the general population with a full complement of guts.

A million years ago, I was a research scientist.  I spent 1/2 my time begging for dollars and that's one of the reasons I left the field.  I loved the work and hated all the politics and backstabbing for money and position.  Plus you could do a whole project, come up with the idea, procure the funding, do the work, analyze the data, write the paper and get it published.  Then when it was published all the credit went to other people who had nothing to do with the project.  One project I worked on was attempting to find the exact part of the small intestine that produced Secretin, an intestinal hormone.  Along the way I couldn't help but notice the rats with bypassed guts lived longer and stayed young longer than the control group.  And most really good discoveries are accidental.  You are looking for X but you have a corollary finding of Y and Z.

My reason for telling you this is that I had a pet lab rat, Alfred.  If I was in my lab, Al was in my pocket or on my shoulder.  He was fat and old.  He scared the crap out of the Medical Students!  He began failing and I found symptoms of diabetes.  I figured he had little time left and his quality of life was going downhill.  So I gave him what would later become the 'switch' part of the DS.  I bypassed 75% of the small bowel.  He survived the surgery and recovered well and the change in him was amazing.  I think he lived to be almost 5, an extreme old age for a rat.  All the people who mattered said it was just anecdotal so I repeated the process with 5 more old rats/lab pets.  Alfred and friends probably had one of the first intentional operations to cure metabolic disease.  Even back then, the early 70's, diabetes was big business so no drug company was to fund research for a surgical cure.  I could never get funding for a real legitimate study.

In a lab somewhere, there is some bright person who has all the answers.  But no one is listening.

 

Im listening...lol.  Great post....  So interesting....I could read that kind of thing all day

So..."smile and nod" really is the best strategy!

Your post is very interesting, thanks for sharing.

I think the "labs as your guide" philosophy works here. My Doctor told me to shoot for 80 grams, after looking at the OH posts, I modified that to 80 - 100. I'm happy with that unless the labs point me in another direction. I want to keep it low until I am in maintenance mode. 

IF the tingling is really a protein issue maybe you should push a little higher so you have some leeway if cir****tances force you to be below normal for a day or two.??

IS that St. Vincent in Cleveland? I almost had my surgery there. I'm still seeing different NUTs. The last one was in a group session and at least knew that the DS had different needs than the RNY. I have a one-on-one with her in July - hoping for the best. It seems like all the "professionals" have an opinion but no studies to back them up.