Bound to be unpopular counterpoint to the Joffee thing
Hi Ed.
I have 2 points:
1. As Maggie said, Joffee was bound by his professional code of ethics and statements of practice to refrain from sexual relationships with his patients. He crossed this boundary, which makes his registration/legislation to practice as a physician null and void.
2. Inequitable power distribution. The nature of his position creates a situation in which he has more "power" than his patients. As a result of this, sexual relations cannot be consensual. It is this premise that contributes to the professional boundaries set in #1. It is his responsibility to ensure that this boundary is not crossed, whether or not there are advances from his patients.
SherryB
I have 2 points:
1. As Maggie said, Joffee was bound by his professional code of ethics and statements of practice to refrain from sexual relationships with his patients. He crossed this boundary, which makes his registration/legislation to practice as a physician null and void.
2. Inequitable power distribution. The nature of his position creates a situation in which he has more "power" than his patients. As a result of this, sexual relations cannot be consensual. It is this premise that contributes to the professional boundaries set in #1. It is his responsibility to ensure that this boundary is not crossed, whether or not there are advances from his patients.
SherryB
The situation is no different than a teacher and student, a priest and a congregant, etc. He has broken his code of conduct.
We don't know the specifics. Did he touch, etc. while the patient was out, drugged, recovering, etc. You can never assume consent. If he did want to date a patient properly he would have to end caring for her as his doctor and wait several months before starting a personal relationship.
What if he made surgery date, or something else dependent on getting some?
When I was 16 I was sent to see a neurologist. The doctor had me strip down to just a paper johnny shirt and lay on my back. No one else was present in the room. He tore the paper shirt down the middle all the way down so I was left completely naked on the table. He then had me stand and walk and stand on one foot, etc. with my eyes closed. He then started telling me what a nice ass I had, asking what kind of bikini I wore as he saw my tan lines. etc,etc. WHen I sat down on the table again he rubbed himself against me and had a woody.
I was stunned, didn't know what to do as I needed to see this doctor.
I got out of there and went home crying to my mother. We called the college and the family doctor. We were told not to make waves because this doctor was the ONLY neuro in our city and the city needed him.
So please Ed, don't jump to conclusions. Doctors are in a power position and use all kinds of methods to get their sexual needs taken care of. Until you know the facts don't assume the women were in an equal relationship with their doctor. Just by the nature of their relationship they were not. Certainly you have read about therapists sleeping with their patients. - again abuse of power.
We don't know the specifics. Did he touch, etc. while the patient was out, drugged, recovering, etc. You can never assume consent. If he did want to date a patient properly he would have to end caring for her as his doctor and wait several months before starting a personal relationship.
What if he made surgery date, or something else dependent on getting some?
When I was 16 I was sent to see a neurologist. The doctor had me strip down to just a paper johnny shirt and lay on my back. No one else was present in the room. He tore the paper shirt down the middle all the way down so I was left completely naked on the table. He then had me stand and walk and stand on one foot, etc. with my eyes closed. He then started telling me what a nice ass I had, asking what kind of bikini I wore as he saw my tan lines. etc,etc. WHen I sat down on the table again he rubbed himself against me and had a woody.
I was stunned, didn't know what to do as I needed to see this doctor.
I got out of there and went home crying to my mother. We called the college and the family doctor. We were told not to make waves because this doctor was the ONLY neuro in our city and the city needed him.
So please Ed, don't jump to conclusions. Doctors are in a power position and use all kinds of methods to get their sexual needs taken care of. Until you know the facts don't assume the women were in an equal relationship with their doctor. Just by the nature of their relationship they were not. Certainly you have read about therapists sleeping with their patients. - again abuse of power.
That is gross and infuriating that he did that. I find it even more shocking that everyone wanted to sweep it under the carpet. A sleazy surgeon who liked to party hard with adult patients is a bit different than this but still, I guess I see the need for the rules that are in place forbidding doctor/patient, teacher/student relations.
high 47BMI/360lbs, now @ goal since 1.25 years post DS 23.5BMI/187lbs
"Faith is not the answer, it only stops you from asking the questions"- Frater Ravus
"Faith is not the answer, it only stops you from asking the questions"- Frater Ravus
Bruce, i think the problem is you are a nice guy and you are projecting your morals and values on others and thinking this guy just made a small mistake but did not mean it.
it is not your fault...
sometim, over a beer, i will talk to you about some of the things i have seen. one of th reasons i quit the military after i was attached to the amerian special forces and then became a firefighter.
i have no illusions of how low a person can go. sometimes i still am guilty of doing the same as you, giving a person the benefit of the doubt that they have my morals and ethics, but in the back of my mind, i think of what a person can actually look like under their skin, it can be ugly
it is not your fault...
sometim, over a beer, i will talk to you about some of the things i have seen. one of th reasons i quit the military after i was attached to the amerian special forces and then became a firefighter.
i have no illusions of how low a person can go. sometimes i still am guilty of doing the same as you, giving a person the benefit of the doubt that they have my morals and ethics, but in the back of my mind, i think of what a person can actually look like under their skin, it can be ugly
(deactivated member)
on 4/16/09 1:32 pm, edited 4/16/09 1:32 pm - Brampton, Canada
on 4/16/09 1:32 pm, edited 4/16/09 1:32 pm - Brampton, Canada
Bruce, doctors are in a position of power and authority with their patients that is why sex is not considered to be consensual. Many patients who are female (males too) and morbidly obese are vulnerable from past abuse, issues in their life, you name it.
Often times doctors who are assessing patients for weight loss surgery will ask you for your history that impacted you gaining weight. In this situation a person disclosing psychological conditions, past traumas, etc. are sitting ducks for the doctor to use that in an unethical manner if they are so inclined. What better person to victimize than someone with for instance mental health issues or past addictions, etc. who is easy to manipulate and whose credilbilty would be suspect?
Physicians are bound by their governing body NOT to have a sexual relationship with their patients period, never mind taking drugs with them for recreational use. If they find they are developing improper feelings that they are being tempted to act upon the onus is on them to seek advice and help to not cross that professional boundary.
Often times doctors who are assessing patients for weight loss surgery will ask you for your history that impacted you gaining weight. In this situation a person disclosing psychological conditions, past traumas, etc. are sitting ducks for the doctor to use that in an unethical manner if they are so inclined. What better person to victimize than someone with for instance mental health issues or past addictions, etc. who is easy to manipulate and whose credilbilty would be suspect?
Physicians are bound by their governing body NOT to have a sexual relationship with their patients period, never mind taking drugs with them for recreational use. If they find they are developing improper feelings that they are being tempted to act upon the onus is on them to seek advice and help to not cross that professional boundary.
It's crazy Ed.... but I actually agree with you on this one!
He is not a pedophile or something. In reality he had consensual sex with willing adults.
Did he take advantage of his position as a physician?? Yes his actions were definitely inappropriate.
Is he the first surgeon to have sex with a patient?? Ummmm doubtfully!!
Should he loose his license?? Hmmm I'm not convinced - I think being disciplined and having sanctions may have been more appropriate.
Should he be sued out the wazoo?? - This I find appalling!!
HW/SW/CW/Orig GW/New GW 328/311/161/153/142 LOVE my RNY!!!!
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