Question/thought/curiosity

kairosgrammy
on 3/7/19 10:56 am
RNY on 10/17/17
On March 7, 2019 at 5:36 PM Pacific Time, Writergurl08 wrote:

I'm not yet in maintenance, but I do crave variety in my menu and meals and LOVE vegetables. Once I got to a point where I could easily get my protein numbers from food, I just kind of decided that while I CAN eat 4-6 oz of protein (depending on what it is) and be full, I'd rather eat 3-4 oz of protein and add a vegetable or small salad on the side. So basically, I "make room" for the veg.

Im just over a year out, for reference. My meals total around 7-8 oz in weight depending on the protein or what vegetable I'm having. Something like lettuce or spinach salad isn't very dense, so I can eat more of that than say, green beans or Brussels sprouts. I still eat any fruits or starches last, but I try to limit those more as I'm still trying to lose.

I can eat a lot of salad but my protein limit is about 3 oz at 17 months out.

Surgeon: Dr. David Carroll Surgery Date: 3/17/2017 Hospital: Merritt Health River Oaks Hospital

Height: 5'2" HW: 331 lbs SW: 279 lbs GW: 130 (originally, I changed to 140) CW: 130 to 135 ish

Biggest Goal: To Be Healthy in everything I do!!! To make healthy choices always!!! To just embrace HEALTH each and every day for the rest of my Life!!!

Sparklekitty, Science-Loving Derby Hag
on 3/7/19 10:03 am
RNY on 07/30/19

I see your paragraph about "real food." I think this is pretty contrary to a lot of advice from surgeons and veterans. Veggies are great, but NOT what your body needs when losing weight. If it was a smart idea to eat veggies first, doctors would recommend it all around. I'm a bit concerned that you're ignoring advice and doing whatever you want-- at least, that's how your post reads.

Veggies DO fill you up. It's not a lasting satiety, like protein, but even when "compacted in your pouch" they will take up space that would be much better-served by protein.

Regarding the first question, many veterans DO eat a single food and call it good. My surgeon's maintenance advice is still "protein first, then a bite or two of veggie if you have room." Even in maintenance!

"Real foods" and a "balanced diet" are great common-sense concepts for people who've never been MO or SMO, but a lot of the rules don't apply to us.

Nerdy Little Secret (#42) - Derby Strong!


HW 300 / LW 150 / Post-regain goal: 170

kairosgrammy
on 3/7/19 11:44 am
RNY on 10/17/17
On March 7, 2019 at 6:03 PM Pacific Time, Sparklekitty, Science-Loving Derby Hag wrote:

I see your paragraph about "real food." I think this is pretty contrary to a lot of advice from surgeons and veterans. Veggies are great, but NOT what your body needs when losing weight. If it was a smart idea to eat veggies first, doctors would recommend it all around. I'm a bit concerned that you're ignoring advice and doing whatever you want-- at least, that's how your post reads.

Veggies DO fill you up. It's not a lasting satiety, like protein, but even when "compacted in your pouch" they will take up space that would be much better-served by protein.

Regarding the first question, many veterans DO eat a single food and call it good. My surgeon's maintenance advice is still "protein first, then a bite or two of veggie if you have room." Even in maintenance!

"Real foods" and a "balanced diet" are great common-sense concepts for people who've never been MO or SMO, but a lot of the rules don't apply to us.

I get around 130 grams of protein a day and I'm not trying to lose. I am actually in maintenance and I did discussed this with my nutritionist when I went in to talk to her about maintenance. I like success so I do tend to discuss before I do. Yes, veggies do fill you up but it sure takes a lot more of them and again, I'm hesitant to rely solely on vitamin supplementation to get what I need nutritionally, that's not being contrary, it's just good sense. Actually, my nutritionist told me I'm the poster child for this surgery. I am very aware that my actions can make being a poster child for the surgery into being the poster child of how not to eat. I live in fear of regain and I will not knowingly jeopardize my weight loss. Right now, my struggle is not eating enough and still losing. So that is my primary focus, eat more. I weigh daily so I will know if I need to stop that approach.

And food rules do apply to us. If you eat a lot of crap, you will gain weight. If you eat a lot of sugary products, you will gain weight. If you eat a lot of processed food, you will gain weight. If you eat more calories than you burn, you will gain weight. If you eat a lot of low cal veggies, no matter how hard you try, you will not gain weight. Calories in, calories out still apply to us. The reason protein is recommended, particularly during the weight loss stage is #1, we do malabsorb and protein is more difficult for the body to process and so a lot goes out in waste, we eat more protein to compensate for what we can't use. #2, we need protein so that we don't lose muscle which is why you should also exercise and weight train. So if I'm getting adequate protein (more than is actually recommended, btw) and I'm exercising and doing strength training which are necessary for muscle retention, I think I can eat veggies and complex carbs too.

At my nutritionist's recommendation, I don't drink when I eat (unless I forget which is about once in a blue moon), I get plenty of protein, I eat healthy, whole foods most of the time, I read ingredient lists and avoid processed food and I exercise and work hard. I stay on top of any and all medical conditions that might slow me down and I take good care of myself. Do I follow all the rules perfectly, no I don't and anyone that says they do is either not present in life or they are lying. Do I follow them as well as I can, yes. Do I do extensive research into diet, exercise, bariatric surgery and it's requirements to be successful and all things weight loss? Yes, I do. Why do I research? Because knowledge is power and success. The more I know, the more I know what to do.

I'm sorry if this post seems negative to you but yours really rubbed me the wrong way. You took what I said and turned it into something else. I said very clearly that I make sure I get enough protein and I do. But I still do and will continue to eat a bite of this and a bite of that when I eat because that is how I enjoy eating. And if I'm honest, I eat my protein last because, as I did when I was a child, I save the best for last.

Surgeon: Dr. David Carroll Surgery Date: 3/17/2017 Hospital: Merritt Health River Oaks Hospital

Height: 5'2" HW: 331 lbs SW: 279 lbs GW: 130 (originally, I changed to 140) CW: 130 to 135 ish

Biggest Goal: To Be Healthy in everything I do!!! To make healthy choices always!!! To just embrace HEALTH each and every day for the rest of my Life!!!

Sparklekitty, Science-Loving Derby Hag
on 3/7/19 12:02 pm, edited 3/7/19 4:07 am
RNY on 07/30/19

I said "a lot of rules," not "all the rules." :)

Nerdy Little Secret (#42) - Derby Strong!


HW 300 / LW 150 / Post-regain goal: 170

Sparklekitty, Science-Loving Derby Hag
on 3/7/19 12:11 pm
RNY on 07/30/19

Also-- it's lovely that you've (obviously) done your research. But it's important to be aware that there are a lot of post-ops here who do NOT do their research and rather learn from example. Following the "veggies first" protocol as a newbie, without the guidance of one's medical team, may lead to protein deficiency.

Just because something works for you, doesn't mean it will for everyone. I believe it's important to be very clear about that here on the forums :)

Nerdy Little Secret (#42) - Derby Strong!


HW 300 / LW 150 / Post-regain goal: 170

kairosgrammy
on 3/8/19 8:21 am
RNY on 10/17/17
On March 7, 2019 at 8:11 PM Pacific Time, Sparklekitty, Science-Loving Derby Hag wrote:

Also-- it's lovely that you've (obviously) done your research. But it's important to be aware that there are a lot of post-ops here who do NOT do their research and rather learn from example. Following the "veggies first" protocol as a newbie, without the guidance of one's medical team, may lead to protein deficiency.

Just because something works for you, doesn't mean it will for everyone. I believe it's important to be very clear about that here on the forums :)

Research is a personal responsibility, imo. If you don't do the research and you don't talk to your nutritionist than your weight gain in on you. I'm, by nature, a rule follower, I'm a tad OCD and I'm very analytical. I do nothing mindlessly because that's what someone told me. As I said, I did discuss this with my bariatric clinic's nutritionist and she was fine with it.

Food research is contradictory at best and downright confusing most of the time. Should you do keto, paleo or just stand on your head at mealtime. But there are a few steadfast rules, a body needs an ample supply of protein, veggies are good for you due to micronutrient values and processed food is 98% of the time bad for you. I like structure but I'm also not a robot. I weigh, measure and plan just about everything I eat. I don't bring a kitchen scale to a restaurant, I do rely on eye balling and intuitive eating at that point but I don't eat out very often and if I do, it's also planned, i.e. Cracker Barrel is grilled chicken tenders, broccoli and pinto beans. Chicken tenders is obvious, broccoli won't make me fat and are steamed and I do find that it is a bit bulkier than some veggies so I'm good for 1 or two florets and I get the pinto beans and although they are carby, they are complex and slower digesting and also have significant protein and legumes are an excellent source of nutrition. I also know how much I can eat from experience.

I am new to WLS and I'm very aware of that. I know I have to be vigilant and ever conscious of what I eat. I don't anticipate that ever not being the case and if I start "eating intuitively" all the time, I'll probably be shocked by my scale one day and probably not pleasantly so. That will be on me because it was me who went off the rails. It won't be anything anyone said on this forum that made me gain weight. If you blindly follow, than expect unfavorable surprises.

I also strongly believe in personal responsibility. If you gain weight because you aren't following the rules or your muscles waste because you eat insufficient amounts of protein knowing that one of the aspects of RNY is malabsorption, it isn't anything I've said or done, it's what you failed to do, failed to research and failed to understand why you do what you do.

Most of all, I don't believe that I should be anyone else's conscience. I have a very good one. For example, I know a guy who is about 4 months out of RNY, he eats crap and although he's losing well now, I fear that down the road, he won't. However, as he has stated, his nutritionist said it was okay. Even though I think that is crap, it's not my responsibility to tell him his nutritionist is whacko (she's a fan of processed food, I believe) If and when he gains weight, I can kindly make suggestions that will hopefully help him eat better. And perhaps, down the road, I may need that same help and if it is done in a helpful manner, I will listen. I always do.

Surgeon: Dr. David Carroll Surgery Date: 3/17/2017 Hospital: Merritt Health River Oaks Hospital

Height: 5'2" HW: 331 lbs SW: 279 lbs GW: 130 (originally, I changed to 140) CW: 130 to 135 ish

Biggest Goal: To Be Healthy in everything I do!!! To make healthy choices always!!! To just embrace HEALTH each and every day for the rest of my Life!!!

Sparklekitty, Science-Loving Derby Hag
on 3/8/19 8:25 am
RNY on 07/30/19

Again, it's great that you follow your surgeon's advice and know your stuff to the point of being able to brag about it.

My point is that not everyone does, and many people DO follow the examples seen on the forums, and that's a good thing to be aware of when sharing your experience.

Nerdy Little Secret (#42) - Derby Strong!


HW 300 / LW 150 / Post-regain goal: 170

kairosgrammy
on 3/8/19 10:43 am
RNY on 10/17/17
On March 8, 2019 at 4:25 PM Pacific Time, Sparklekitty, Science-Loving Derby Hag wrote:

Again, it's great that you follow your surgeon's advice and know your stuff to the point of being able to brag about it.

My point is that not everyone does, and many people DO follow the examples seen on the forums, and that's a good thing to be aware of when sharing your experience.

Well, I'm glad I have something to brag about instead of claiming lack of responsibility. So whatever.

H.A.L.A B.
on 3/8/19 11:47 am, edited 3/12/19 2:41 am

I research everything I can and is available. And then some. Very important part of my research is reading people personal stories. I learned a lot, if not most of practical issues from veterans of WLS. What to do to be successful, and what not to do based on experiance of people who gained weight back.

Dietitian, nutritionist, docs, nurses, surgeons - unless they "walk the walk", their knowledge is theoretical. Successful post op have more practical, day to day knowledge.

I benefited much more from others experience. I learned about real dumping, RH, and nutritional deficiencies. And when 2 years post op I started feeling really bad, even with what my doc said "labs are normal" , an RNY veteran offered to help by looking at my labs. I had some numbers just barely normal, normal enough to be alive, but not enough to feel good. The vet - she is living the life and experienced deficiencies under docs care. She stuck around to pass her experience and her knowledge to help others. I try to pass the favor, by staying on OH and trying to help others.

By the way - there is so much info on the net, some of them false, that to get real info we often need to know what to look for.

Hala. RNY 5/14/2008; Happy At Goal =HAG

"I can eat or do anything I want to - as long as I am willing to deal with the consequences"

"Failure is not falling down, It is not getting up once you fell... So pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start all over again...."

(deactivated member)
on 3/12/19 9:52 am
RNY on 10/09/18

what a great response; i wish all of the answers to her post had been so well put. i thought this was a safe place to come for family (related by WLS.)

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