Head hunger? What has the sleeve done for you?

Can I add to your comment about the "normal" plate of food?

I really had trouble with this once I started soft foods.  I would watch my hubby's plate and kinda feel sad that mine couldn't look like that.  If i went to a restaurant where I got a full plate, I would not be able to judge where to stop, and I"d overeat.  And feel sad and crappy.  I'd worry that the waitress was judging me because I didn't eat very much.  Or my friends sitting near me who haven't asked why I've lost weight (or even really noticed - but that's another story!) and so don't know I had surgery - judging me.  Do they think I'm anorexic?  Or dying???  That kind of thing.

I am happy to report that I think I am OVER that now!!  Whoo hooo!  I kind of celebrate my smaller plate each time I think about it.  At home I don't think about it at all - and my family no longer comments on it.  I look at their plates and think - "woah, that's enough food for a WEEK!" and I'm glad I'm not them.  In a restaurant I DARE the waitress to ask why I didn't eat much - and I just say "I'm full.  Small appetite!"  She's probably wondering about this chubby girl (see, no longer saying FAT) with the small appetite - but I don't care!!

It is good that you are looking at all the sides and considering deep and wide before making your decision for weight loss surgery.  I will just give my experience and share what has happened to me along mine so far.

I have yo-yo dieted for my complete adult life and developed type 2 diabetes around age 40 or so.  I have been diet-controlled, out of control and on two different meds to try to control the diabetes and was told I was about to need insulin when I finally decided to try wls as my last hope so to speak to try to change some habits that have been in my life for a very  long time.  yes, I truly wanted the surgery to be the "magical" answer to my weight problems and my relationship to food and for the first 6 months or so after the surgery, it was truly a wonderful vacation from my "demon" of addiction.  I was so enraptured by the fact that I could no longer binge like I used to that I thought , "this is my answer" I'm so glad I did this - - - on and on like most people on the site.  Then about 8-9 months out, I realized that my "issues" with eating were still there and the ability to eat more at once time, and the realization that I could eat, drink, and then eat again came back into focus when I would get stressed out or bored or mad, or  whatever, (the emotional eater) came back into focus.  I came to the realization that I really do need to deal with my emotional eating issues and figure out what my cues are, what my trigger foods are, etc., etc. 

Now you could say, you could have done that without the surgery, well yes, but the surgery has changed my focus to long-term health and looking at the food tracker (glad they added that) I can track my eating patterns and see if I need to lower the fat content, up the protein, change the carb count, etc.

Each person is different with their ability to absorb carbs and will react differently based on their body type.  I was carbohydrate sensitive way before the surgery and having the surgery did not change that fact.  As long as I stay at the low end of the carb ranges, I do fine.  When I start inching up on how many carbs I have vs. the protein, my weight starts to inch up.  I also have learned that exercise plays a major role.  When I am exercising faithfully, when I do eat a few extra carbs, it doesn't really affect my weight.  When I am getting lax about working out and such, and then the extra carbs come in, zap, boom, bang . . . . there I go -- and the weight just jumps on my body! 

If you can look at this wls as a journey of knowledge and experience versus a one-time shot and life is changed forever then I think you have  much healthier mind-set to embark on this journey.  You will still have to deal with your "issues" post surgery, but it is ever so much easier to deal with your "issues' with 50-100 pounds of excess fat gone than having to deal with them morbidly obese and feeling hopeless.

I hope I have given you a glimpse into my experience and have cleared some of your questions.  Good luck with your journey. - Cheryl

But for me, its the first time I feel like I am not holding my breath on a diet since I was 12 years old!  It is so freeing and liberating.  I am dealing with eating issues, but I feel like I have the ability to be sucessful in eliminating old behaviors.  It isnt a cure, but it is one hell of a tool

hiya pengworm3, ive been really thinking about your post hun, and im almost 9 months out from surgery, before surgery i had wonderd the same things as you, what will be diff, will it feel like the same ol same ol dieting b.s. ,for me after surgery i eat ALOT LESS,i still eat things i like, but less, yesterday i was cookie hungry, so i had 2 cookies, crackers and peanutbutter,2 mcdonalds carmel ff lattes, so what im saying is i have what i want, but not everyday, and alot less, you gotta beable to enjoy some things, wls is suppose be a tool of help, not toruture, its not easy, but sooooooo worth it, i walk daily, eat or drink my protein first, my tummy still doesnt like meat, so i drink protein shakes daily, im hopeing the meat trouble will change, cause i luv grilled stuff, and this summer i tryed, but got ill every try, good luck hun, surgery does make a big difference, makes it very hard to put more in your tummy, it just wont fit.......take care..tracy.

I haven't read everyone's response, but it is different for everyone.

I still get head hunger, the only difference is that I can't eat gobs of whatever I want.  But I CAN eat enough cookies, ice cream, cheese, cream, salad dressing and candy to keep me from losing weight and even gain.

You can still eat the occasional potato, rice or pasta dish or even one VSG size serving a day.  You can have an ice cream cone everyday if you allow for it.  There is nothing you can not eat.  There are things you should limit or avoid.  Sugar is the main culprit for me because you can consume a lot of it without filling you up.  You really can not eat junk all day long because it is the stuff that goes down without a fight in quantities enough to keep you from losing.  Key word=MODERATION!

This surgery is not going to change your head.  As a matter of fact it is going to mess with your coping mechanism.  You are not going to be able to stuff your emotions.  You are not going to be able to pig out at restaurants and love it.  You are not going to be able to eat promiscuously.  You will find that this can turn you into a total *****  You will also find that if you listen to your feelings you will act more decisively when you need to instead of stultifying yourself with food.

I am going to be totally honest with you.  It has been extremely hard for me to wrap my head around my banana stomach.  I fight it, but I love it all at the same time.  I was raised in an environment where food was part of my culture, my social life, my legacy from my ancestors who were the best damn cooks on earth.  It is a curse or a blessing, it is up to me to make it one or the other.

Here is the big but!!!  You haven't got a prayer without WLS of ever losing weight and keeping it off.  To me there is no choice.  It is a gamble, but odds are you will have a much better chance of getting the body that nature intended by fooling mother nature a bit.

It is very good that you are asking these questions now. 

I've been at goal for over a year and I pretty much eat what I want, and that's the truth.  It is the most normal my eating has ever been in my entire life.  I followed plan very closely during my 15 month weight loss time frame and reworked my eating and food preferences.  However, I do eat tacos, bread, candy, but I also eat tuna salad, baby carrots and other lean protein.  It is a balancing act. 

And I've added exercise to my life, no excuses. 

I didn't know how I would react post-WLS, and there really is no way to be certain.  I was one of the lucky ones that seemed to transition fairly easily and the lack of hunger was and is awesome!  We all got fat for different reasons and WLS takes care of some, but not all, of those things.  If you think a lot of what's going on with you is in your head, it is advisable to seek counseling pre-WLS.

 I'm not sure how I can contribute to answering your questions, but I'll add what I can.

To be perfectly honest, there is no cut and dry answer here.  Every BODY is different.  What works for Leslie may not work for me.  I know there are certain things that I MUST refrain from adding to my diet.  

For the first year, I did everything to a T.  High protein, low carb, lots of water.  I did fantastic!  Hunger, as I felt it before, was basically a non-issue and I got accustomed to the new feelings of hunger I had...  Which can be described as a simple empty feeling.  After I hit my 1 year post-op mark, I got complacent.  I saw lots of people around here eating whatever they wanted just in smaller portions and were losing weight still.  I wanted to be one of those people.  So I ate what i wanted, just in smaller portions.  the scale stopped moving.  I even gained a little.  My lowest weight that I got to was 236 and I bounced up as much as 251.

It's not a diet...  It's a lifestyle change.  We can't eat at burger king everyday and expect to still lose weight...  I know that's not what you are insinuating.  But if it's bread, pasta, and rice that helped get us here in the first place, continuing to eat it will not help us get to goal.  

Another factor that plays into it is insulin resistance...  A co-worker's daughter had the sleeve about a year and a half ago.  she started at 253 pounds.  Today she is 135.  She ate whatever she wanted from day one.  She still stuck to the "protein first" rule, but she enjoyed ice cream, nacho's, pizza, burgers...  Barely ever stepped foot in a gym the entire time...  but just on restriction alone, it worked for her.  She is one of the lucky ones who is not insulin resistant.

My body on the other hand does not react that way and I KNOW that if I really WANT to lose weight, I have to stay away from some things.  It does make me want to rebel from time to time and I am living proof of that.  But getting back on the wagon once I fall off is much easier now that is was when I was 425 pounds.  

As far as the hunger goes...  I have not once felt that unrelenting hunger that I felt before.  Hunger is a very different feeling now.  It's just an empty feeling.  Like Beth said about emotional eating, you have to be able to identify what kind of eater you are.  Are you just a volume eater, are you an emotional eater, are you a stress eater?  This surgery will only help with the amount of food you eat.  As to why you eat it is a whole different story.  

I do find that some foods make me feel hungrier faster.  Anything that is high in carbs makes me hungrier faster...  foods that are sweetened with artificial sweetener make my tummy grumble when I know it shouldn't...  So I try and stay away from the ones that make me feel that way.  Or else it will set me up for a binge later...

It's all about utilizing your tool in a way that works best for YOU.  

Hope this helped a little.

Hi, Pengworm!

It's great that you are really thinking this through before surgery. We all bring different food demons into the surgery with us, so our experiences are different and you can't take any one else's experience as being a guarantee for you. However, your last paragraph does describe pretty much how I live now at 2 years out. It's "normal" and pretty effortless. Normal thin people have to watch what they eat--very few can eat whatever they want, whenever they want, in the quantities they want without gaining weight. The VSG helps give you a tremendous amount of control over what you eat.

I am a firm believer in the "protein first" rule. For health, we need to get that protein in. After that, well, pick what you want in moderation. I like sweets and eat them (in small amounts) everyday, but I'm one who doesn't often go for the rice/bread/pasta. Sometimes I do, don't get me wrong, but I make choices. I can't have my candy AND my pasta everyday, so I pick. I truly do NOT feel that there is anything I can't eat. And so far it has not been difficult. You are restricted in what you can eat, you get full on a small amount of food, so for me, it has been MUCH MUCH MUCH easier to keep the weight off than it ever has. So far, easy, honestly.

Can you out-eat the sleeve? Yes, if you mindlessly eat too many slider foods like candy, chips, crackers, ice cream, etc. They go down easily. You do have to have some self control for sure. For example, I still can't keep ice cream around because I'll eat too much. But I sure do enjoy it when we go out! Without a constant gnawing hunger, it's easier to make better choices.

It's important to say that I'm talking about maintenance here--while you are in the losing phase, you do need to stick to your doctor's plan and make the most of those early months when you are losing quickly. For my doctor, that's very low calorie and low carb during the losing phase. I did follow the plan very closely and then began to experiment with my "rest of my life" eating plan.

Hope that helps!

Lizanne

Head hunger is EMOTIONAL eating.  Whatever the emotion is, stressed, happy, bored, frustrated, old habit, new habit whatever.  People say it time and time again ANY weight loss surgery works on your stomach and how much you can eat.  NEVER EVER EVER think that WLS works on WHY you eat...period stick a fork in me I'm done!

My sleeve allows me the ability to NOT have the knawing physical hunger I had before.  I didn't realize HOW much I focused on food and felt ravenous UNTIL I had my sleeve.  The sleeve is a WLS that removes your stomach and within that removes a hormone called Grehlin.  It is supposedly THIS hormone that drives hunger.  NOW I will say this just like with any other WLS not everyone reaps THIS benefit.  Some still feel physical hunger..."just not like before"

Like I told MYSELF and my BEST girlfriend for many this is the "easy" part loosing the weight.  BUT the further you get away from the early stages and the "rules" is you haven't dealt with the MENTAL aka Head Hunger issues, they have a tendency to COME BACK and come back with a vengence because they are MAD that it took you 2, 3, 4, years to remember them.

Before surgery I was/am a person who stayed at home and usually ate while watching TV.  I ate when I was bored and had nothing to do.  For the first say 1 1/2 years out, I was always doing something...NOW not to much and guess what, my old friend boredom eating sat next to me one day on the sofa and whispered in my ear...I wonder what's in the kitchen we can eat.  I did this CONSEQUETIVELY for abotu 2 1/2 weeks.  Now when I went into the kichen I was "driven" to eat a turkey leg...I fed my boredom with CARBS and honey I'm here to tell you NO WLS helps against white processed carbs, like bread, pasta, cake, crackers etc.

NORMAL consumption of them...NO problem...HEAD hunger consumption BIG problem.  There is a BIG difference between just an ice cream cone here and there and buying a quart of ice cream on Tuesday and throwing out the EMPTY container on say Thursday.

Ms Shell

Most of this has already been answered, but I'm in a helpful and opinionated mood. Bonus all around.

Do I "diet"? I think you have to read this question carefully. If you mean "diet" as in do I eat popcorn and doughnuts and ice cream and cookies and cake, then yes, I diet. But here my vsg helps me tremendously by removing hunger, limiting intake even if I did eat those things (I confess I've had about five bites of cake in the last 9 months), and limiting the amount I "crave" because honestly, that stuff is too sweet and can make me sick; I also don't have a taste for it like I did pre-op, though I was never a big sweets eater.

You will have to "diet" in this manner no matter what WLS you choose -- most likely. I've come to believe that a real diet is simply eating the foods that promote your health, work with your body, fuel your activities, and make you feel happier and healthier. If you're PCOS/insulin resistant, pasta and potatoes will never be your friends. This doesn't mean you can't/won't ever eat them again, because honestly, eating a little pasta on a rare occasion won't make you balloon -- but if your body is sensitive to them (and only you can know this), then eating them habitually can slow you down and even make you gain. Worse, they can make you complacent and drive cravings for junk food just to 'prove' to yourself  that you're normal.

But you're not. If you're at a state where WLS seems to be the answer, then you're far from normal. You may have friends who can eat cookies and candy and fried foods all the time and not gain weight. Kudos to them. But I doubt that most of us are that fortunate, if you even consider ingesting that stuff to be a 'treat'. The issue is that most of us have a lot of emotional demons to slaughter throughout this process and even on into maintenance, and probably forever.

These issues MUST be resolved, and one way or another, you WILL contend with them no matter how you choose to lose weight. You have the benefit of a doctor, a nutritionist, support groups, and this board to help you do so, and if you need to see a shrink, go for it. 

Don't let fear stand in your way. You will not know what you're in for here unless you research like mad, and even then, you'll still come up short. In the end you'll have to take the leap. And it's scary. And emotional. And private. And quite possibly the kindest thing you'll ever do for yourself.

Just remember that food is only food. It doesn't dominate you. It doesn't own you. It isn't your enemy. It isn't your friend. It has no feelings toward you whatsoever. It's up to you to figure out what works best for your body's individual health, and it'll take patience, lots of trial and error, setbacks, slow-losses, gains, hydration battles, exercise, talk therapy, follow-ups, meal planning, and KINDNESS and RESPECT.

But it's worth it.