The Average American

Frisco, this is very interesting!

There is definitely some disconnect going on.  We are getting much heavier as a society, but I don't think it's because we're exposed to media images that are heavier.  Seems like models and such are thinner than ever.  We're holding up idealized images of women that are probably *smaller* than normal or healthy, but it isn't making us thinner as a society.  I'm not sure media or celebrity have any effect.

As a fat child in the sixties, I can attest that life today as a fat child or adolescent is much easier in terms of stylish and comfortable clothes.  I was teased and ostracized and if you saw pictures of me then, you wouldn't think I was actually *fat* by today's standards.  But none of this was enough to make me thin. 

Where I *do* think our media affects us is how we as a society choose our food options.  We are making it very acceptable to eat processed, unhealthy foods - and on top of that, by advertising them with healthy-weight actors.  I think the availability of cheap, tasty, processed food is what is killing us, and what is making the rest of the world starting to catch up with us in terms of obesity.  I spend a lot of time in England and the change there has been dramatic in just the past 25 years.  I think these foods have an addictive component, and a lot of money behind them. 

Skinny isn't always healthy.  My skinny friend in college was more unhealthy than me because she was lazy and unfit.  She wouldn't and struggled to climb one flight of stairs. She was seriously 'skinny fat'. There is also such a thing as underweight.

That being said 5'8" at 115 is underweight.  I'm 5'9" and the high end of normal is about 168. If I get down to 160, I  still would not be a size 4-6 (maybe 8-12). 

The confusing thing about your post is this: height.  Models are about 5 inches taller than the average woman.  So, if the average American woman is a 12-14, then she is 5'4" (avg height) and 12-14.  That is a very different thing than a 5'9" or 5'10" person being a size 14.  I'm shooting for 14- maybe less, but definitely 14 is a goal. Size 4-6 is not a concern of mine because of my height.

Health and fitness should be the focus, but unfortunately sizes are used for marketing like you said.  However, we should not encourage women who are struggling to achieve something unrealistic because of their height. It is too discouraging to tell a 5'4" woman that she should be skinny like a taller woman who is probably underweight.  That would mean that the 5'4" woman should shoot for size 0 or 2 to look like the model who is a size 4.  It would be more realistic and productive to tell the woman to shoot for an 8 or 10.

The bottom line is that fashion marketing is probably not going to change, but women need to focus on their health and fitness level, their body fat percentage, and their waist measurment.  You don't promote a size, you promote the measures of fitness and health.  It is not a choice of promoting overweight or model sized.

As usual, you bring up a very interesting point.  Whenever I travel to other countries, it becomes much clearer to me, how much fatter our "average" is to almost any other place on Earth.  I have a difficult time finding clothes to fit in regular American stores.  I wear a size 0P and there are very few designers in America that cater to this size.  I often have to shop in designer boutiques that sell clothes from Europe or Asia to find things that fit.  When I travel abroad, I can go into any store and most clothes are designed to fit me, as a matter of fact, my size is not even close to the smallest size there.  I seem to fall right in the middle of what other countries consider normal.  It can be very eye opening and helps me stay strong when Americans tell me that I am too thin.  I never, ever hear anything like that from my European friends.  I have friends from Russia as well, and to them, I am too thin while my Asian friends think I am just fine.  I think culture plays a huge part in what is considered normal and healthy.  I too think some of the models look a bit anorexic at times, however, that is not the majority of models, just some very high fashion ones.  I am also not a big fan of the drugged out look that seems to be fashionable, but that's for  another post.  I think models should be in the lower- normal BMI range and be healthy looking.  I say the lower-normal BMI because of Frisco's point about clothes draping a certain way and because this way they can add layers of clothes.  I understand this from a marketing point of view.

I would vote for low normal to mid normal BMI for models.  

As already posted I think it is misleading to show clothes on underweight models, which then don't look as good on normal weight consumers.  

And I think it is damaging to kids to show bony people as the ideal in ads since so few will are able to be so thin naturally and healthily.  I get where you are coming from questioning if "average" sized models would normalize being overweight.  On the flip side overeating isn't the only eating disorder and young people are more susceptible to anorexia and bulimia.

I think there needs to be a happy medium. I'm sorry, but the twiggy models are just too thin. I get that some people's bodies are naturally going to fall into that range, but some simply look entirely too skinny. I'm not saying that a size 16 is healthy or that a size 2 is healthy.

Here's the bitter part of me... at my heaviest, I had to do a lot of catalog shopping (or go to Catherines - LB was out). I was a size 32/34. I HATED it because I couldn't tell what the outfit would look like on ME. That size 8 model they are using can wear stuff that might look good on her, but would make me look like a stuffed sausage.

I think that is where a lot of people come from... I want the industry to use models that truly show the clothes on the bodies they are selling them to.

Okay, so the average American woman is a 12. I get that the designers want to use the skin and bones folks for the runways, but how about showing how that piece of clothing looks on a size 12 since that's what *I* care about. I get it, I might still be obese, but I am buying the damn clothing and I should be able to judge if it's going to look okay on my body if it looks okay on HER body.

Just sayin'. THAT is my gripe with it. I don't care what they do on the runway, but when you're selling it to me... sell it to me so I can see what I'm really buying.

Having said all of that... I totally get what you are saying, Frisco. Our perceptions are SO screwed up. For the fashion shoots and all that crap, yeah, use the skinny girls and show off those clothes. But for marketing and selling, I really wish they would reconsider it.

I'm going on a limb here. I do not think 12 is fat. And at 42, most ladies I knew even 20 years ago ran between 8 and 12.

And when I was in puberty and chubbed up, I was put on diets (was already active). That was stupid. It is the mindset back then to push girls to be thin and THAT is a problem. Diets and going against body types ends up messing up metabolisms.

I am not shooting for thin. I am the healthiest at size 10. Not fat. And I refuse to accept that there is only a small range of healthy.

We need to focus on healthy eating not size. It messes with girls minds, you have no idea. Go thru here, see the women who lose 100 pounds and still see themselves fat. Irish and German heritages both have robust women, as do other countries. Size 6 is not everywhere. And yes this is a hot topic for me as it took 35 years to undo the damage of shooting for thin.

I have no desire to be skinny, I look damned smoking hot at 10 or 12!!

I am soooo enjoying this thought provoking post...    And everyone's replies... 

Very inspiring post, Frisco.


When those modeling shows had just started, and I watched my child and her friends watch the shows on tv, I was worried. To me, then; at size 28, those models were not even of this world. They had bones where I didn't know I had any.

And the clothing ? Even skinny, I couldn't, wouldn't relate to the clothes or the makeup or the fashion. And I hoped my daughter would not either....

But did those girls appear healthy to me ? Not most of them. Can size 0 or 2 be heatlhy ? Of course ! Can a size 12 or 14 also be healthy ? Yes to that one too.

Models are young, and now seeing models still in their teens is not new, some are even younger than that. Should a 20,30, 40 or horrors, a 50 or 60 year old aspire to look like a 13 year old ?

Should our daughters aspire to be that thin ? Or that tall ? What do we tell our sons and daughters whose genetics will have them topping out a 5' 2" ? That the reality of modeling is that you have to be tall, and I can't give you tall genes ?!

Reality TV really isn't reality for most of us, is my opinion.

 I haven't read all the responses but I say that we accept all body types rather than promote any body types. The fact is I couldn't have lost this weight without my sleeve. I don't care how much I hated myself or what bodies were on the TV. There are people who cannot have this surgery and who have food addiction. I believe there are some people who will just be heavier. My eldest son is a perfect example. He is way more interested in food than his younger sibling. He is just like me when I was younger. He deserves to see children of all sizes accepted and celebrated. I think the word "normal" can be hurtful and yes I am concerned with protecting feelings. If I hadn't had people to keep up my selfesteem while I was heavy I wouldn't have had the courage to get my WLS and be where I am today. This is a diverse world with people of all kinds, why can't our entertainment industry reflect that?

Well Frisco, I think this question has many elements that need to be addressed before I could answer. For someone like me a size 4-6 is completely unattainable. I know this because at my thinnest  I weighed 140 pounds and I am 5'6.5" This seems like a totally normal weight. But the truth of the matter is I have a wide ribcage and large shoulders and I am not using the excuse that I am big boned, lol, cause my wrists are actually fairly small.... Anyway, my Doc. thought I had an eating disorder (and if I am honest with myself I did) despite sounding like a nice normal weight I was actually all skin and bones and I was always cold and had huge bruises from the malnutrition. My pants size at my smallest was a size 10. Now this was 1997, so I don't know if there is a difference in the sizes now.  A size 10 and 140 pounds doesn't sound skinny per se, but I was. I knew other girls the same height as me who weighed 125 and looked totally healthy. After all this (lol, sorry) my point is everyone is different and everyone's body and shape is different. For me a size 12 is a healthy weight, but if I were any bigger than that 12, I would be considered overweight. I think a six-ten seems to be a healthy clothing size for the average woman (or what the average woman should be). From watching some modeling shows California Models are much healthier sizes than say NY and European models. I agree for fashion the models should be maybe in the lower end of a healthy BMI  (IMO). But, I am not mad at you because it is a thought provoking question and you have a very valid point. Showing the average size person in an overweight Country is not a healthy body image to promote. Neither is the people who are so skinny you worry their heart is going to fail. Good post