Question for those Who Question Calories/Plan

As far as the first question goes, this is something that should really be answered with peer reviewed long term medical studies. I have yet to find any that can answer your question directly. I'm not sure the question itself even makes any kind of a point.

Reality check: generally speaking, both calorie ranges are well below the basal metabolic rate of anyone from a normal BMI (18.5) on up, so both should calorie plan levels should create a deficit leading to losing 100% EWL. The real issues that differentiate those who lose 100% EWL to those who don't have nothing to do with the 400 calorie difference between the 6-800 & 1-1.2k cal ranges, and everything to do with habits, behaviors, motivation, persistence, etc.



As far as your second question goes: there are many reasons patients leave OH. Some leave because they have reached goal and find the focus of the boards no longer meet their current focus in life. Some leave because they now have a busy and active lifestyle and no longer need - or have time for - OH. Some leave because they feel that the focus of the boards may be counterproductive to their achieving and maintaining a healthy lifestyle. I often wonder if the VSG board is too numbers/rules/black-and-white-thinking to be a healthy factor in my life. You assume that OH is always - and always stays - a healthy influence in the life of a bariatric surgery patient, but this is an assumption I just don't stipulate to.

Someone may decide the boards that focus on the following topics may be a healthier place for him/her at any time before, during or after WLS:
1) Boards focused on specific mental health issues
2) Boards focused on specific activities/exercises/hobbies that keep the patient moving.
3) Boards other than OH dedicated to their specific surgery type (OH is not the end all/be all of WLS boards)
4) Boards that do not focus at all on weight loss, weight management or weight issues (for some psychological struggles, this is particularly important, but rarely discussed on here).

Just because OH no longer meets your needs doesn't mean you've failed WLS. It can also mean you've succeeded in identifying your own individual needs and have been smart and resourceful enough to seek out something that meets them. Afterall, if there's one thing that we can all agree on, this is about doing what works for you & being willing to make adjustments if you find that it no longer works. (Okay, that's 2 things)

I don't just want to lose 100% EWL in 6 months. I want to live a normal, healthy lifestyle in a normal, healthy weight range and free my mind from obsessing about weight, numbers, the yo-yo and the self-control issues associated with my own disordered eating and personal weight struggles. To me, these things define success, and none have a thing to do with 6-800 cal vs. 1-1.2k cal.


Somayeh

 
EDIT: In the spirit of discussion.... 

Somayeh,

It's very clear you have this figured out !

I sincerely wish you much success......

frisco

 Hey Frisco,

hehe! I wish I had it figured out! I imagine if I did, I'd never have needed surgery to begin with ;). At 1 week out, I'm lucky to be getting 1L of fluid in. Everything else is a learning curve. I swear I do realize that I have much to learn!

I just think it's important to have a voice that constantly reminds us that "there's more to this than calories." I feel like at times we get so destracted by the "this many vs. that many" conversations, that we lose sight of the kinds beliefs and thought processes that got us here in the first place. They might not get us back to fat post-operatively, but dysfunction has a way of rearing its ugly head in other areas when one area of expression is cut off.

I worry at times that we are encouraging newbies to redirect their dysfunctional behaviors, rather than address them, be aware of them, and learn to move away from them. Redirection is good in the short term, don't get me wrong. It can lead to goal within months. It may even ensure that someone doesn't regain. But regain is not the only consideration, since WLS is a life-changing procedure on many diferent levels. Redirection, while useful in the first 6 months, can be detrimental in the long term, as the high incidence of post WLS anorexia, bulimia, depression and anxiety seems to indicate. I'm not advicating no redirection at all...just awareness. And the readiness to address and learn new coping mechanisms/belie structures/thought processes as you move through the phases of this journey at whatever pace you, as an individual, need to. 

I know sometimes I get carried away. Please know it comes from a place of love & respect and a desire to see us all heal, in every way possible. 

=)
Somayeh

 
You and I may be on the same page.....but different book.......

Don't take this the wrong way.... I don't want to discount your issues or research/education. It's very apparent your very smart.

But here is the deal....your pretty new here and in the early stages dealing with your own struggles....I totally get that....most of us that have posted here have been there. The beginning part is hard.

Again without discounting your opinions..... you haven't been through this hand in hand with others that didn't do so well. If you look at my friends list of over 250 there might be only about 30 that are active and maybe about 20 more that chime in occasionally. A good many got what they wanted/needed and moved on. But lots of them faded because the didn't do well.

It is "Heart Wrenching" to get emotionally involved in someone Else's journey and it comes up short.
I've gotten the "Help" cry no less than 50 times in the last two years and sometimes it's just to late. The flip side is the satisfaction of helping somebody get back on track and see them get what they wanted. 

So I will totally argue with you about the difference of 400 calories..... there would be absolutely nothing you could say that would change what I have lived through. A very high percentage of VSG  people find 1200 cals a days as there balance maintenance weight....sorry...but whatever math your going on is generally not correct for a VSG patient with a half way messed up metabolism.

100 calories a day over your balance point is a 10lbs. a year weight gain. Lots of VSGers balance out at around 1000-1400 cals. 

I'm down with what your saying about dysfunctions and addressing issues..... I will also tell you a lot of those issues get easier to deal with when WL is realized..... In general.....as a person loses more weight...... confidence and self esteem rises and dealing with those issues can get easier to deal with.

I also want to see anyone who takes on any WLS do well.

You can think want you want to think.....but the difference between the two calorie ranges I've mentioned can be the difference between 50% EWL to 100% as a matter of fact at about 55%EWL is considered a success.

You mention encouraging newbies..... that is exactly the reason for this post.....if a newbies first message they pick up on is "Peace, love, dope, happiness, incense.....do what you want, you don't have to follow no stinking plan" Then they can get off track from the jump. Look at that girl from Texas.... 4 months out and not losing....she was determined to be one of those that didn't have to follow a plan like some have done successfully. Well...she through the white flag up and is restarting.
Don't you think a newbie coming in should be exposed to the most successful people on this forum.....look at the responses on this thread..... frickin awesome WL. If I'm new...I wanna know what the highest percentage is.....

Here was my advantage.... I came from a very strong and successful program. I picked this guy cause his people lose weight and tend to keep it off....... no thinking....just doing....while doing.....learning. Having the confidence that I'm doing all I can do by following the program I can work on my surrounding issues for long term success.

OK...thats it....need sleep.....

frisco

 I think one of Frisco's points here is critical - it really depends on your metabolic rate. So many here have destroyed their metabolisms by crazy-ass dieting, lack of exercise & the effects of comorbidities that saying a 400 calorie difference is trivial is just wrong for this population.

someone here recently had their RMR measured and even obese/overweight it was ~1200 cals. This is NOT someone who will lose satisfactorily on 1200 cals per day unless they are efficient exercise demons (which with that metabolic rate is unlikely, IMO).

this isn't all of us - I'm losing, albeit slowly, as a preop on a MUCH bigger calorie allowance than that...I'm guessing my metabolism isn't too messed up...reading some stories about prior losses and regains, I suspect I might be a rare beast!

I did the 600 to 800 calorie 70 g protein and under 40 carbs plan as per surgeons instructions. I decided before surgery that I was going to do exactly what my doctor said to  do and not try to game the system (which is what i usually try to do in most things to make it easier). I lost weight rather slowly but steadily with no significant stalls and rate of loss actually speeded up in the later months and I overshot my goal by 15 lbs. 

so staying low worked for me - and it was closer to 600 than 800.  my hubby is not in the same program 6 months out today. He eats closer to 800 in part at my encouragement as he has to get in 90 g protein and that means a few more calories. but he is losing 4 to 5 lbs a week and has lost over 100 in the 6 months since surgery.

So we are two people who have done well with this plan. I can't speak to the other plan because i didn't do it.

And 2.5 years later I still hang around here because it keeps me thinking about these issues and helps me avoid the compalcency that might lead to the dreaded regain. As god is my witness, i will never be fat again!!!     Diane

 I ate 600-800 calories initially.  After upping my workout, I slowly shifted my calories to 800-1200... And still lost weight.  I cut way back on workouts due to a hectic work schedule, and moved my calories down to 600-1000... And am still losing.  I plan to move into maintenance soon...  Not sure what I'll do with my calories...

Back when I first joined the VSG board after my expected RNY turned into a VSG - I read a post where Frisco mentionned the 600-800 calorie plan and I took it to heart and I can say it's working awesome for me!  I lost 91 pounds in 3 months and I am only have half of my weight left to lose!  Another 115 pounds and I am at goal which is something I feared wouldn't be a possibility.  I dont' plan to go over the 600-800 calorie goal until I am done losing!  Fingers crossed I can make it to 165!!

 
This is what makes it worth it for us vets to hang around !!!!

WTG !!!!!

frisco

you make a lot of sense frisco

after a lot of thinking and reading all the posts these past two days, i m  convinced that 600 to 800 is perfect calorie range for most vsg'ers because that allows some liberty to hover between 700 - 800 which is reasonable and doable.  

when i think back over the past 6 1/2 months, as an average, i have averaged 700 calories a day since surgery, but my daily calorie intake varied widely because that is just the way things panned out.  Yesterday i had 500 calories just by accident, it wasn't intentional, i was just busy and distracted.  But just as unintentional, i have had 1,500 calorie days.  And i have had a few zero calorie days on water fasting days. 

someone -- i think rhearob -- said that his doctor has him on 400 - 600 calories a day and i thought that was over the top.  it made me sad that a doctor would put someone on a plan that is so austere that the person is hanging by a thread to stay on plan and may be at risk of facing total discouragement and despair.