Sleeve of steel and no restriction?

Gee, how lucky can you get?

I'm glad I saw the video that somebody linked to last week that explained how sleeve size will vary because stomach size varies.  A tall person might have a longer sleeve than a shorter person (though not necessarily), etc. I am going to ask my surgeon about it, but for now, I'm assuming I had a larger/longer stomach to begin with, because I tested the capacity of my sleeve this morning with cottage cheese and at 4 ounces I felt fullish.  (That's by weight, not volume. But I don't know how much difference it makes, really.)

But even then I didn't really FEEL it.  I don't seem to hit a point that says, "Uh-oh, too far, now you've done it."  Granted, I weigh/measure everything and am counting protein and calories so I'm not overloading it, but other people mention eating a few bites and having to sto*****t being able to swallow much, and I just don't get that.  It doesn't make sense to me, because if your esophagus hasn't changed, it seems like you'd swallow the same way you always have?

Anyway, I've always been able to drink normally and have never had a problem with anything I've eaten.

I will say that the shrimp I had Saturday night (boiled) did make me feel almost uncomfortably full.  Six shrimp that were meant to be an appetizer.  Not huge, not small.  So I guess I know I can feel that, but I don't know that I'd call that a restriction, since I usually don't feel it.

The other thing is, I now, maybe an hour after eating the cottage cheese, feel more "fullness" than I did while eating and when I stopped, and more than I felt a half hour ago.  Not sure what that's about.

I'm wondering if this is why my weight loss isn't as fast as some.  So many people are still on liquids or soft foods at less than 4 weeks out, and struggling to get them down, struggling to get their protein, etc.  After the 4th day, I was drinking my 4 shakes a day plus soup and popsicles and water.

I just wonder if I'm simply a "lucky" one or if there's something different about what was done to me.  The doctor used a 36 bougie which I know is larger than is common, but it shouldn't make that much difference. 

I'm eating 600-800 calories a day, 60-80 grams of protein.  My carbs either come from milk or from veggies.  I'm not eating sweets, sugars, fruits, breads, etc.

My experience is a bit closer to yours than some I read on the boards.  I had a LapBand for 4 years and remember well the feeling of, "OMG, I took one bite too many....it's going to have to come back up!".  I also know the feeling of taking one or two bites and feel it sitting in my esophosgus and know that I won't be able to eat any further.

My sleeve is so good to me....it lets me eat anything I have tried so far.  My sleeve also helps me to feel satisfied after about 2 oz of solid protein, and probably about 3-4 oz of something like cottage cheese.  Like you, I haven't experienced the "couple of bites and it's over" with my sleeve, but since I had so many of those experiences with my band I am thankful for that!! 

I have a 34F bougied sleeve and my nutritional numbers average to about the same as yours.  I am not losing very quickly.  I know that I don't have a whole heck of a lot to lose since my band helped me to lose some of my excess weight. 

I think if you and I keep doing what we are doing, we will do just fine. 

I know that's part of it, too.  The less you have to lose, the slower it comes off (usually).  I'm not fretting over it. 

It's interesting that your lapband was more restrictive than your sleeve.

And I may have a different experience with dense protein, too.  I know the shrimp I ate Sunday definitely sat there and I knew it!  I'm eating brisket now and am much more aware of it than I was the cottage cheese.  I even wondered if cottage cheese was a slider, but I read that this is the test hospitals use--first meal, how much cottage cheese can you eat before you're full.

Well, my LapBand was restrictive for sure, most times, not even allowing me to eat meat....and that was with barely any saline in it.  My sleeve is so good to me! ha ha

 How do you do with dense protein such as chicken??? I had a 48 bougie so you are correct in that is not make the difference. I think as long as you keep doing what you are doing you will be successful not sure if you are eating the dense protein yet I was not until 8 weeks even tho I was cleared to by six weeks but I know I always fill more restriction when eating that. Hang in there don't compare to others just keep following the plan it will work we are all different cheers 

I actually haven't had much chicken but I've had beef and shrimp and fish.  The fish isn't dense, of course so it's no problem at all.  The shrimp, I was definitely aware was there, and maybe you'd call that discomfort... but it was nothing like "omg this may not stay down."  And I'm eating brisket right now and I'm much more aware that it's "there" than I was with the cottage cheese!

Also, I only had 2 oz of brisket and it's plenty.  So I'm seeing a difference.

How long have you had your sleeve?  Your success is a huge inspiration!

 Great glad to hear it, I thought you would feel a change once you eat the more dense protein. I have been sleeved for 3.5 years now. I notice I can eat quite a bit of things like soup liquids cheese cookies chips all those things you shouldn't so you do have to make a conscience decision as to what to eat but if you stick with the rule of thumb to always eat your protein first you will find little room for those other foods. When ever I go astray I go right back to that rule and kill myslef with Chicken and it works everytime. In fact I am currently on one of my get back to basics right now. I never let myself gain more than three pounds and for some reason this last week I could not get the two off and then the scale jumped 5 lbs overnite and I panicked so I am back to strict dense protein water veggies this week just stated yesterday and dropped three over nite so might have just been water but I am sticking to it to get off the original two. I weigh myself everyday as to not let things get out of hand it is easy to revert to old habits the further out you get. I don't restrict anything I eat unless im on the back to basics as I am now which happens about once a month other than that I eat all foods. Best wishes to you on your journey cheers 

I weigh myself everyday, too.  I would rather know the awful truth than have it slap me in the fact one day when I've gained 20 pounds.  So yes, even though I gained weight through the years, I did as you do now.  I knew that I could get it off and so I'd hit "that number" (whatever it was) and would snap back into reality and drop it.  I could never sustain it long enough to lose enough, though.  Oh, yeah, I lost about 40 pounds on weigh****chers 20 years ago, and lost about the same on the Zone diet later (though I started out weighing more so it didn't get me down to where I wanted to be before I couldn't sustain the boredom of the diet any more).  

So what you describe sounds very promising to me.  I know I can do that!  Only this time, I'll be doing that to stay at a good weight, instead of in an attempt not to creep higher still!

 I would say that my experience is also probably closer to yours than the "OMG, I can't eat anything" posts.  I wouldn't go crazy overanalyzing it though or let it throw you off (and remember this the engineer saying this to you).  I also wouldn't worry much about how the surgical techniques may affect the "speed" of your weight loss.  At this point, its trivia.  Its Done, Its IN the past.

I forget from your ealier posts how much, if any, you lost before surgery.  Just looking at your ticker, I would say 30 lbs in under a month is not SLOW.  You are doing pretty dang good.  As I mentioned before, I find your surgeons leniency with the diet unusual - most of us were on liquids only for the first month.  That will contribute a lot to the weight loss.  In the month after surgery I was only getting between 420-450 calories a day.

Also, I think the term restriction gets used alot without definition, or at least proper definition.  All restriction really refers to is the limitation on the amount of food you can eat before becoming full.  If you get full on 4 ounces of cottage cheese, you are experiencing restriction.

What you should be striving for is a feeling of satiation, or being satisfied, by the food you eat.  This is much less clinical and much harder to learn.  The point of the sleeve is for us to feel fuller faster.  So if you feel full after eating 4 ounces of protein instead of 32 - the sleeve is doing the job.  The trick, at least for me, was learning to recognize the point at which I am satiated.  Sometimes I still miss it - especially if I am talking to someone at dinner or reading something engrossing.  I will keep moving that fork without paying attention to my sleeve.  Until I feel the restriction kicking in - that incomfortable feeling that tells me Foamies are the next step if I don't drop the dang fork.  I ate right past my point of satiety until the rstriction was my last resort.

For me the signs that I am satiated can be very subtle.  They are signs I am not used to looking for since I was a chronic overeater before surgery.  USually the first sign is burping.  If I am eating too fast this one can easily be missed.  I have to try and remind myself to eat SLOWLY.  IF I am eating soemthing spicy, my nose will start running.  Thats a new behavior for me - never happened before.  Its also possible that I never noticed it before because I always wolfed down my food.

Your stomach will be very low key in telling you you are full.  I wi**** would take the Looney Toons approach and reach out and slap me, or speak up for pete's sake.  Try to eat slowly, and listen to your body for its cues.  Make it an almost zen experience.

In the meantime, you are doing the right things by measuring your portions and following your plan very closely.  From what I see, you are doing really well so far.

Thank you!  This is all very, very helpful.

I lost 13 pounds preop, so 17 since surgery? I guess the reason it felt a bit slow is for 10 days I only lost a pound, so it felt as if everything ground to a stop.  I knew that was not unusual so I didn't obsess, but I was certainly aware.

I am going to ask my surgeon about his leniency, whether it's typical or was specific to me.  By day 5 I was drinking enough shakes to get 600-700 calories a day and 80 (more or less) grams of protein.  I was also drinking water (not 64 ounces, but several cups), having soup, eating popsicles.  So yeah, after the first few days I never had a prob.  I have more issues getting enough protein now on real food than I did on shakes, obviously.  I was swallowing my cymbalta capsule w/o any problem.  I can't remember what else he asked me--something else that made him smile and nod.  And then he asked, "How are the solids going?" 

Well, he had told me prior to surgery in the "holding area" that if I was keeping everything down and having no probs, I could try a little ground meat--chicken, beef, turkey--and see how that went.  So I assumed that's what he meant and I said I hadn't tried it.  And he said, "You will today." 

And I said, "Pureed stuff?  Soft food?"

And he said, "If you want, or if you want hamburger."

As you know, that floored me!  But what can I say?  He was right.  That night I ate three teensy-microscopic bites of pot roast (in gravy, so extremely moist) and it was so little, it was prettyt much a joke, because I then proceeded to chew each one twenty time (except it kind of disappeared on me, LOL).  But the next day I started testing myself with foods and it has gone great.  So I have no explanation for his direction, except that it worked.

Also, at my hospital their standard is clear liquids in the hospital and full liquids when you go home, and I know that's a little faster than most, too.

Finally, your explanation of satiety and fullness is extremely helpful.  I have a triple whammy going on here.  One, I am not observant.  People ask me about my hernia, because I had a moderately sized hernia that had to be repaired at the same time, and nobody could believe I hadn't been aware of the pain.  Well, I was aware.  But other than the times when it pain was really, really bad and I went to the doc and he put me on something for acid reflux, and said if this doesn't help, come back and we'll see if something else is going on....   Well, after that, I just took stuff for the acid reflux and didn't worry about it.  It seemed to work, so, in my mind, that was sorted.  I sometimes had acid reflux.  And I walked around with a lot of low level discomfort that I attributed to my fat, my diet, whatever, and that was "normal."

So there have been times since I've been sleeved that I haven't been aware that I may have eaten too much until much later when I'm in the middle of something and then think, "Oh, this is discomfort... "  Because I'm so used to feeling it, it just doesn't feel "different" and I don't notice it.  A double-whammy of "not observant to begin with" and "discomfort/pain as normal" compounded by the additional "sleeve of steel" that doesn't kick back on me... 

Yeah, I've got a lot of learning to do.  And knowing that you've been through this is so helpful, because you've blazed the trail and--more important--as an engineer, you've really analyzed the feelings to a degree I never would.  So i've got something to help me be more observant, to know what to observe.

Thank you so very much, as always!