Did the surgery fail or did I fail the surgery?

***** This is not by any means a post of being judgmental I haven't had the surgery yet so I can't speak on how anything is afterwards, this post is just out of curiosity and wanting to learn as much as possible before my surgery happens. This is purely a question asked for my own education, not meant to offend or hurt anyone's feeling ******

Since joining OH I have popped in and out of different topics, message boards and forums. I have seen a fair amount  of post saying that the surgery failed for some of them. They didn't lose a lot of weight and/or they regain it most of it back. Now usually the details of why and how are not always explained and I feel it's a very sensitive issue and ppl would be emotional and possible offended about someone asking those details so I don't.  The last thing I want to do is offend someone who is struggling, or in general actually.

I have read some ppl have HORRIBLE complications and my heart goes out to them and pray they have a positive change in their health. But sometimes ppl have to have revisions because of medical reason. I get that, totally makes sense.

I guess what I'm basically asking here.  Other then medically something going wrong with my surgery (knock on wood) is there any other way for my procedure to fail? If I follow the guidelines to the letter of the word. Get my protein in, eat low carb, eat clean and exercise. The weight should come off. No? What else can I do?  Would it be fair to say if I don’t lose weight  it because of my actions or lack of actions that is the cause? Or is it that something about the surgery that wont  work?

Once again, this wasn't a post to judge anyone or their journey. It's a post looking for information and guidance on how to make my procedure as successful as possible.  

Hello,

I am only 5.5 months out, so definitely not an expert by any means.

But, I would say that if you have the surgery, have no complications and do what you are supposed to do, then, yes, you should be successful.

I think that if someone is not losing (at all) or has regain, then it probably is the choices that they are making. Now, there are always stalls. The can happen any time (right from day one) and last for a long time (one lady said she was stalled for 12 weeks!), but, eventually, this surgery should help you to lose weight. I have heard that you could basically do nothing and eat whatever for the first 12-18 months and still lose just due to the malabsorption effect. I definitely wouldn't recommend that :)

I guess if you had this surgery and followed everything to the tee and didn't lose any weight at all, there would have to be a medical explanation for it.

I absolutely believe that regain is all about the choices that you are making because we are told right from the start that after the "honeymoon" period is over, we can stretch our pouch and eat too much and regain everything. And it happens.

What was drilled in to my brain from my centre was that the first 12-18 months was so important. Get your eating down. Get your exercise in place. Then, when your honeymoon is over, you have the good habits in place to keep you on track and not to regain.

I hope this has helped. Like I said, I am fairly new myself, so I don't pretend to say that I know everything or even close to it, so you may want to wait for others to chime in and give their opinions too :)

Good luck with everything!

Thank hun, Really appreciate it.

Hope everything keeps going well with you.

I have started re programming myself for a lack of better words.

I just guess I wanna cram all the info in and look at all angle I can.

I appreciate the patiences with my annoying questions.

Obv I'm not post-op, so I don't have all the knowledge in the world here, but from everything I've read a lot of people regain about 20% of the excess weight lost naturally. This was confirmed yesterday by the social worker I saw who said when we lose a lot of weight our bodies eventually get to a point where they can compensate, and will put on a few pounds (or 20%!). We are technically in starvation mode after the surgery, so when so much of our fat is burned off our bodies will start trying to store it again. That's when exercise becomes important, but more importantly we need to stay on track and work out what the body needs to maintain, or lose if we have put weight on. Whether that be more protein, less, less carbs, more water etc etc. 

So if the odds are already against us to keep off all the weight we lost, or to keep losing quickly, we just have to stay as focused as possible, remember that it's a long game and that there are bound to be ups and downs (but not too many ups, or ups that derail us!) I think there are a lot of long time post-ops on the board that will have much more insight and much better advice, but from my talk with the social worker yesterday that's how I understand the regain that happens with a lot of people. It's not that the surgery has failed, or wasn't done properly, it's just easy to forget that this will be a life-long commitment when we start to gain weight back. It's easy to start freaking out and go back to the stress or emotional eating we leaned on in the past, which just gets us back in to the vicious cycle. For many, if not most, maintaining a food journal, calorie and carb/protein counting will be life long - which I can imagine gets old after a few months! So we start to slip, we start thinking we can monitor our eating without having to write stuff down on paper etc etc. 

Anyway, that's how I think it happens to a lot. I'm sure others will have much better insight, or correct me if I'm wrong on anything! :)

Thanks. I appreciate your insight.

I cant correct you on any of it. lol

I dont know. haha. But what you say, make sence.

The thing everyone has to keep in mind, is the surgery is not magical.  It is only a tool that you have with you.  It does come with a manual and customer support (the materials and support from your clinic).  But you have to choose how you use your tool.  If you choose to follow the manual, and get support when needed, you'll do great.  If you choose to not follow the manual, you will see the consequences of that as well, even in early stages.

If you are following the manual, and suddenly stop losing weight, or slowing down, there can be reasons for it.  Usually it's because you've hit a stall, and this can last anywhere from a few days to a couple months.  Your body is trying to catch up to the new rules that it's following.  And weight can fluctuate daily, and depending on your time of month.  These are normal pauses in weight loss, just double check you are following the manual, and wait it out.

There are sometimes when people who have had surgery, revert to old eating habits, and stop losing or start gaining due to stressors that are in their lives.  This is when we have to remember and be willing to reach out.  You also have to be willing to admit that you have slipped up, get help, and start again.  It's very easy to start back to old habits once you do it once.  It's a struggle for most people.

I have heard of someone losing all their weight, then gaining it all back.  At a support meeting, she admitted to eating a pound of chocolate a day.

You also have to be ready to go through this journey, if you are not committed to doing this, then it will be that much harder to follow the manual.

I posted a thread last week, called Quick Reference, it has a guide for what to expect with weight lost and timing.  It's only a guide though.

Good luck on your journey.

Cathy

Thank you that reassurance.

I think this surgery effects more mentally then you are aware of until you start researching and reaching out for support.

I have a co worker who is also going thro the process. Not joined any online supports, no support groups and is still smoking.

I keep telling her she has to quit to have surgery, she keeps saying she can say its the patch if any nicotine shows up in blood 

work. I told her if she isn't committed now to the process and the changes now, how is she gonna handle it after. She laughs and tells me I worry to much and she will be fine.

She told a mutual friend that she thinks I'm over thinking this and obsessed. I told the same friend I'm about to have a surgery that is going to change my physical make up. Shouldn't I be obsessed about knowing all the info and how to make it work?

Getting all the information now isn't obsession, it's making informed decisions.  You need to know everything in order to make the decisions that you are making, and be committed to stick with those decisions.

As for your friend, if any smoker thinks that they can hide the smoke from non smokers, the only one that they are kidding is themselves.  She is putting herself at a higher risk during surgery by continuing to smoke.  As well as the healing afterwards.  I have seen first hand how our immune systems spend so much time on parts affected by smoking, that it is easier to get sick, and harder to get over it than a non smoker.  I never smoked, but I watch my Mom and I can see the difference between now and when she was smoking.  She should quit,but it has to be her decision to do so, not yours not anyone elses.

You are doing nothing wrong with asking questions, and don't take what your friend says to heart, she's the one who's not informed.  She should join some kind of support group, it doesn't have to be here, but she should join on.  It's amazing what you can get through when you have people behind you.  That I do have experience with.

Cathy

i can tell that this person is going to be one of those people who say that the surgery didnt work for her.

I will share my experience here so you understand.  If you've read my 6 year write up from last year, you've seen most of it.

*****

I'm hoping this post won't come across as too negative and whiney...but it just might. I want people to know that there are not always rainbows and unicorns in our journey. There are issues of all kinds after surgery and after you've been out a while.

 I had surgery on July 5^th, 2006. Back then many of us went to Michigan My care there was great, after care really sucked. But my surgeon was wonderful and I had very few problems with my surgery itself. The only complication was a nicked artery. I lost a bit more blood than most patients but recovery was fairly easy. I was at the mall my second day home. It truly was easy breezy!  The first year is an obsession year. You become absolutely gungho and read everything you can wls related. You are pumped, motivated and so excited!!

My first year out was GLORIOUS. I have no other word to describe it. It was so wonderful. Euphoric!!!Although I was a slow loser (my surgical centre gave us no guidelines on carbs and I do think that slowed me down compared to others) I did fairly well. I started at 290 lbs before surgery and ended up being less than half that by goal. My first year I followed the rules very well and made exercise a huge part of my life. I made a point of walking to and home from work every day 3 miles and then would jump on my treadmill at home for another 4 miles. I was pretty motivated, highly focused and felt so strong and powerful. I remember feeling so strong and powerful – I was now eating to live and not living to eat. I loved feeling that power over food! The first year is a CONSTANT high. We long timers wish we could bottle it and have it back. LOL It's purely magical!        The pay off on the scale, the compliments ---- that is motivation that keeps you going and only increases your motivation to keep up with exercising etc.

The second year was pretty good too. I still had that high...but the binges started to creep in now and again. Those of us who are binge eaters do tend to struggle post op. I'd binge and then cry about the binge. I hated myself for doing it. I was even planning binges in advance...and then feeling like a failure a half hour later when I felt like crap. I started to gain. It started to freak me out to be honest. Five pounds up. Feeling a bit daunted. People actually commented that I was too gaunt earlier and that I was looking better...but I did not feel that at all. The mental struggle was beginning and the feelings of being out of control and feelings of failure were terribly powerful. I was starting to feel powerless to food, no longer so powerful.

Eating issues are kept at bay the first year for most of us.  We can't eat a whole lot and even if we cheat now and again, we still lose.  Not so much after that.  The scale is no longer forgiving.  Past the first few years, it's back to the same -"Work your butt off for a whole week" and lose 1 lb.  It's a hell of a lot of work to lose regain.  You get tired of it after a while so it's easy to fall off the wagon because the payoffs aren't there anymore.
 

When I got to goal, no one really taught me what it meant to eat in moderation. I'd always been overweight. I always had a problem with food. I was never that person that could eat a small bag of chips and put half of it away for later. Not even as a teenager. It was a foreign concept. Portion sizes were starting to get larger. It started to get scary. I could eat more and binges were bigger. It was getting downright scary. Feeling out of control, feeling worthless.....up 10 lbs...

I ended up as a size 10 and eventually 12.   I was devastated. People I worked with were size 0 and 2 after having children. I started to obsess and do the 5 day pouch test....then cut carbs completely, then bingeing. I'd repeat the cycle again and again only to have the same results. I'd work hard for a week and lose only 1 lb but then binge on a bad weekend and gain double that. The weight was no longer falling off like it once did. I felt like 10 lbs could have been 100. I know it sounds strange but that 10 lbs was totally overwhelming to me.

I started feeling like a failure because I didn't get to size 4 or 6. I was still “big”. I felt like a failure. I know that it seems so foreign that you'd consider yourself a failure being a size 10 or size 12 after being size 26/28 at your heaviest...but the mind is a strange thing. I became too obsessed with comparing myself to others. Not realizing how far I'd come. The reality is that some of us have bigger frames, some of us will be a size 2, some will be a size 10 or a size 18 or any size really. We are all so different. Again, the worst thing you can do is to compare yourself to others.   

I decided I had better get into therapy. I went to our local eating disorder place for 6 months of therapy. They cater to binge eaters, over eaters, bullemics and anorexics. I learned a lot about Cognitive Behavioural Therapy which many of us benefit from post op to deal with the head issues. I learned to try not to base my happiness on a size or number on a scale. ( I STILL DO!).  I'm still not ready to throw out my scale like they suggest. A funny thing happened at therapy though – I also became obsessed with how skinny the anorexics look so while I made some progress, I think head issues were still skewed. Again head issues are a strange thing post op.  FAT HEAD.

Years 3 and 4, I continued the same skewed thinking while creeping up and up on the scale. I had a lot of issues going on in my personal life that lead to a lot of emotional eating. At one point, I ended up 27 lbs above my goal. I kid you not. SOOOO easy to do when your mind is skewed. I struggled. I had a few comments said to me that made me feel like giving up and running away. I would battle dark days of hating me, hating the scale and feeling like a total failure. It's very hard to run a support group for weight loss when you are going through the issues but I continued to do it. It was embarrassing to be up at the front when you were feeling like a failure. I lurked more on OH, afraid to post and be called a failure (and yes I did get a snide comment once...not exactly the kind of thing that helps you when you are struggling), poking my head in now and again, but feeling like a lost puppy. Didn't really fit in with the “rah rah” of the newbies and feeling like I couldn't offer any thing to anyone when I was struggling with myself. Up to size 12 and then closer to a 14.    

Losing regain (I've got around 6 more to go til I am back at goal) is WAAAAAY harder than the original loss.  It's different now.  It's sloooooooow and it's a lot of damn work to keep it off.  My head issues don't go away.  I struggle every day with my fat head. I am holding my own because I have been resilient and have not given up the fight.  I've had friends that have given up the fight and have regained and are now seeking revisions. I have nothing but love and compassion for them because I know that I could have easily done it myself if I had just given up....and some days, I do want to.

I'm here and I'm honest about this here on OH because I want people to know that you shouldn't be ashamed if you are struggling.  And I really encourage people to seek out their reasons for why they are obese and deal with them before surgery because it is harder after surgery to deal with the emotional aftermath.  Whether you eat as a distraction "boredom eating", to soothe yourself "comfort eating", to deal with stress "emotional eating" -- for most of us, we did not get fat because of a medical issue.  (some did of course or do to pregnancy but many of us ate for other reasons). 

I know this is a diatribe and I may get flamed...but this is my experience.  Take it as you will, good or bad.  It is MY truth.

I am an addict to the core.

Dawn