Do You Believe Gluttony Is a Sin? Or Has It Become The American Way, and No Big Deal?

"MORBID OBESITY IS A DISEASE AND NOT A MORAL FAILING!"

I think the spirited comments here are fantastic!!  Disagreeing in an articulate way... I love it! I'm not Catholic... so I don't have the "deadly sins" hang-up.  I think that I was given this body, and brain, and the ability to do great things in this world.  I also think that I allowed my gluttony (no matter how you shake it, by either eating the wrong things or eating too much of the right things) to put me in a position where I could not fully use and appreciate the body I was given.  And with all that weight, I was tired all too often... so I wasn't even able to use my brain as well. So, by not respecting the gifts which were bestowed upon me, I wasn't respecting the entity who gave them.  Nor was I respecting myself, and therefore I was limiting myself in all sorts of ways.  Where that one falls in the realm of "sin," I really don't know.  Under the new covenant, (Jesus, New Testament, no more blood sacrifices etc etc etc) where does that put me?  I don't actually know... but I know I'm on my way to righting the wrong, so I feel fine about it. Sometimes I wonder about how bibles were translated, and what was actually MEANT.  Was a part of me dying spiritually, as I sucked down ridiculous amounts of calories?  By not dealing with some other issues, was that a form of death?  Externalized, if one looks on the earth, its' environs and people as a gift... how far does one go to balance between getting to work and providing for our family, and not adding to CO2 levels and urban sprawl?  (and a bazillion more examples could be added....) Personally, I didn't find the OP to be preachy... mostly because she stated her opinions and then asked everyone else for theirs... and we've all been able to take it in several directions.  The last sentence, however, didn't make sense with the rest of the post... whether you stole the food, or bought the food, it wouldn't change the concept of consuming more than you needed to be healthy.  Stealing is covered over on Moses' tablets.

Crossposted from the DS Forum:

 http://www.obesityhelp.com/forums/DS/a,messageboard/board_i d,5357/

DSers don't play into that "we did this to ourselves" self-loathing mentality.  With the RNY and other surgical procedures we can see where they are headed, and would like to tell them it is not  100% their fault when it happens. But people won't believe THAT when they're so mired in the whole "I'm a bad person" thing. I might actually BE a bad person, but that's not why I was MO, yanno? The die were cast before I was born.

My definition of gluttony:  pillaging and plundering in Iraq to make Dick Cheney a buck.

                     I MY DS!!                                   (Duodenal Switch WLS)                                  CLICK HERE for more info.

@LeAnn: not sure if you meant your reply to me or to the whole thread...  Just for clarification, do you mean the "self loathing mentality" of the consequences of "dumping" or being obese in the first place?  I don't really understand how the mentality would be different from one surgical option to another, could you explain? I don't agree that the die was cast before I was born... I certainly have the genetics to have a TENDENCY towards obesity, slow metabolism etc.  And it's possible that I felt hungrier than people who do not have obesity issues (it's pretty subjective though), but in the end, it was me deciding to eat the diet I ate, and exercise as little as I did.   Had I been eating a healthy diet, with the appropriate number of calories, and been more physically active, I would not have achieved "morbid obesity."  I probably wouldn't have been thin, either.  No one forced cheetos down my throat, I did that all by myself.  This, of course, is my personal experience, and there are a lot of people out there with completely different cir****tances and medical issues... I make no pretense to speak for them. My feelings about what I've done to my body don't translate into feeling that I'm a bad person... everyone falters.  I don't think anyone who is obese is a bad person, they just have a different set of struggles compared to a thin person. Perhaps, however, I misunderstood your post?

You did not misunderstand.  A naturally thin person would eat the same and exercise the same and NOT be obese.  Are they moral and we're NOT?  Or a naturally thin person would prefer different kinds of foods than I do.  Does it make me immoral that I do not like (and thus will not stick with eating) a low fat diet.  I refuse to play into that self-loathing and guilt.  It is normal to enjoy eating and even at times eating unhealthy.  Everyone does it --not just the obese.  Food is one of life's greatest pleasures.  I'm not going to beat myself up for recognizing that.  I chose my surgery type based on this philosophy.  I do not NEED to suffer and be punished in order to lose the weight.

Thank you, LeaAnn... I quite agree with you.  I'm sorry that my post lead you (and probably others) to believe that was my intent. What I meant to express, however shabbily, was that by not taking care of myself, I let myself down, and that that did not give respect to my creator... who actually gave me a wonderfully strong and powerful body and mind, which I was not utilizing and was in fact destroying at a higher-than-normal rate! To me, it isn't the fact of the consumption itself, but that I was letting that consumption ruin my body, allowing the love of food (although, I'm not sure I "love" food itself but more its effects) to overrule everything else about my health. We all have a few irritating friends who can stuff themselves tight as ticks and not gain an ounce, but I don't think of them as "gluttons" because they aren't suffering ill-effects of their eating (although I'm unaware of their blood chemistries, perhaps it just appears to my weight-conscious eyes that they suffer no ill effects!).  I was stuffing my face, suffering ill effects in all sectors of my life, and yet, I still did it.  Knowing it, continuing to do it, not "dealing" with it at ANY level (most of all, psychologically), and harming myself... all adds up (to me) of where the "sin" lies... In a nut shell, loving this inanimate FOOD, more than I love the most precious gift I was given.  I don't feel "self-loathing and guilt," (those would be far too strong to describe the fact that I allowed myself to go down this road).  I don't feel that the "guilt" (or whatever word) lies in the consumption of  the food itself, but in allowing it to become more important than my health, and loving it more than myself.  I also, do not need to suffer and be punished in order to lose weight, which is why I chose a VSG.  Interestingly, I have found that many RNY patients don't view it as suffering and punishing, although that's the way many threads here read. To Bronwen... I LOVE IT.  "Own it." Amen.  To me, it isn't the individual indulgences... I find that "abstaining" from something I want leads to other eating behaviors that aren't particularly healthy (I've heard the term "eating you way all the way AROUND what you're craving"), or just getting obsessive about it.  Eat the damn cookie already! I have to reach WAYYYY down there, but somewhere inside me is at least the tiniest spark of pity for the ladies struggling to become smaller than a size 4.  It's socially acceptable for them to whine about having cheesecake, they can bond at that simplistic level... when I suspect that if they were honest enough or "in touch" enough, they'd actually be saying things like, "I'm afraid my boyfriend/girlfriend won't love me if I'm fat."  Or "I wouldn't love MYSELF if I were fat."  etc etc etc.  I suspect that learning how to live with yourself and love yourself... and surround yourselves with people who love you unconditionally is a struggle for anyone, no matter what size. And finally to Julie R (I know, SHUT UP, ALREADY, BETA!!!).  I would not consider the children gluttons, and I would not consider the adults gluttons... because I think that it takes the *knowledge* of their nutrition (and the ability to change it) to form the basis of making a conscious decision to choose to love food more than your health.  Motive AND intent, if you will. I have nothing but sympathy for the children who are being set up for a lifetime of eating styles and the concomitant health issues associated... even AFTER their situation improves (as I hope for them), they will have this struggle.  The eating behaviors I learned pale in even the simplest comparison.

As a Christ follower myself, I am going to respond with a "Christian" question back to you.  Your hangup on sin seems to be based on being morbidly obese and as a result of your surgery you are "taking stock" of you life and rather than take responsibility for your choices (yes, overeating is a choice...God's greatest gift to us is free choice!)  you are hanging up on only one of the "deadly sins". What about sloth,  are you an avid exercizer now? Pride...that one speaks for itself with your initial posts and follow up responses .  Envy, do you ever wish you were as small as the last poster, that you skin was tighter, that your boobs were bigger?  How about greed,  lust, wrath?    I think the bigger picture is, what am I doing to honor God today and am I doing my best,  right now to try and make Him proud of me.  Am I growing in the fruits of the Spirit...love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness and faithfullness.    I believe that it is said in the New Testament that the greatest command is to love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind soul and strength and the second is to love your neighbor as yourself. Good questions, but please use grace and diginity when bringing up questions of this sensitive nature. Holly

Holly: I think this reply was an excellent example of grace and dignity. Thank you. judi

You're right on a few points here -- I certainly AM "taking stock," and it would be a major loss of this tremendous opportunity of a life changing experience not to do so! I do think that having to make the decision to have surgery is a semi-catastrophic approach to a series of wrong choices.  To some extent, it's like using a blow torch to boil a cup of tea, but it's what we've all come to!  What I'm asking about now, Holly, is the nature of those food choices -- is there a significant moral component to having allowed ourselves to become obese? I'm not a Christian, and I'm not a Catholic, either.  I'm very limited in my ability to use the tools of these philosophies to address this issue, but most of the reading audience here is going to be more familiar with THAT, than anything I can write in my own lingo! An expert in St. Thomas Aquinas can come along at any moment to correct me, but my understanding of the Seven Deadly Sins was not that these particular sins will kill you, and it was not that these sins will destroy your soul.  Rather, the idea was that indulging in these practices and habits of mind will lead to additional sin.  I find that to be a fascinating idea!  And I really do think it plays very well into what we have all previously done to ourselves, though I'm equally fascinated by writers who post that their eating apparently had nothing to do with their becoming obese!!! (I'm not sure about the questions you directed at me, are you taking a poll?  Or are you just a person with an intense sense of irony, who can use a shaking-finger icon while trying to take someone else up on the sin of pride LOL.) So ... here it is:  I'm not as slothful/sad as I used to be; I try to show self respect but not unnecessary pride; and I eschew covetousness when I can, but it does dog me sometimes (I can guarantee that I have never wished for tighter skin or bigger boobs, G-d help me, I'd suffocate).  And I am constantly trying to check greed, lust, and wrath.  But I know, that I do not have the privilege of saying that I am without these things.  Do you? Here's a bottom line for you, HollyB:  I'm very concerned about the choices that I've made in the past, and the impact of those choices on the world at large, especially vis a vis food.  I'm VERY curious about what other people think about this. I'm not really that interested in what you think about ME.  But I'm very interested in what you think about this issue.  What DO you think?

 The fact that it is commonplace does not make it any less of a sin, Biblically speaking  ..   It seems what one generation tolerates, the next condones, unfortunately ..  I could analogize to certain sexual practices here (no pun intended), but not sticking my neck in that noose on here again ..   &:-/)