OOPS!! Sorry

Jeannie,

My husband jus****ched a documentary on, what else, but the History Channel about our founding fathers. He told me (I didn't see it) that Ben Franklin went to London and was going to a "sex club" called ""Hell Fire. It said there were young girls being made to "strip" and also "transvestites" at this club. Apparently, he brought the "sex club" idea over to the states, where these types of clubs were  started up over here. His older brother James ran a newspaper in Boston and after writing a very descriptive story about the details of what went on in the clubs, he was arrested and fined. Yes, indeed, outstanding guys.

Cheryl

I am all for everyone having the freedom to express their opinions on these subjects. I am glad that you feel free to do so... having said that, I have (had) a brother that was a homosexual, so I react defensively whenever I feel the prejudice of persons (especially Christians) against someone I loved and who was born gay- no choice was involved. I KNOW- he was gay before he was sexual. I think I just totally resent the "blanket" "black and white" decisions that many make about the issues that you raised. These are always "can of worms" ideas- in that if you bring it up you will have some strong reactions from many people on both sides of the issue. I'm not attacking you, just making sure that you understand how I feel about that issue too.
Julia

Thanks, Julia, for also being another fearless one...

My son is gay and that is part of what got me yesterday. I love him and it hurts my heart when I have to hear  a "Christian" say some of the horrible things I have heard them say in the name of Christianity. The other part to this for me is that I am a Christian and want people to stop lumping us all in the "moral majority" "conservative" group. I am not just talking about those talking about Christians but am also talking about other Christians who assume I believe in the same way they do. We are not all the same! Not all Christians believe in the same way. There are many different faiths that call themselves Christian and are so very different from eachother. The Christians I have grown up with and are a part of my world are not the people who are the Christians with the oh so narrow view of the world and of humanity. I do not think there is only one way to believe anything, and embrace and enjoy learning about other faiths and other beliefs or non-beliefs.  I am not so arrogant as to think I am the only one who knows the truth or if I even for sure really know what is true. I can only know what is true for ME. (So I have a few buttons being pushed and those are the only two I will name for now.) I have been a Christian since I could know what it meant, and I knew my son was gay by the time he was 2 before even he knew he was gay. This has never not gone together for me...in fact...I don't understand how another person who calls themselves a Christian could make a judgment on a homosexual or anyone for that matter.

Well, now I did it, and this is why I usually don't.

I am also not attacking anyone just want to state my feelings and maybe help with having others understand that our world is huge and we just never know who we might be speaking to. Also, our world is huge and there are just so many other ideas out there that who are we to say we are right?

Hugs to you my friends who are different than me and boy am I glad you are!

Cheryl

You said nothing that should not be said. We should be honest on this forum. Of course some of us have strong feelings about this subject. When my brother was dying I was bombarded with very negative ideas about homosexuality and punishment from God. People that could have comforted me and meant to do that actually made me feel worse with such drivel. If I didn't speak out against that I would feel guilty of not being true to myself.

Thanks, again Julia,

I am so sorry people said hurtful things to you when you needed that least. I don't usually tell anyone, and now I've told how many?, but not because I am ashamed, but because of the cruel and ignorant things people say. 

I still sometimes reel from the idiotic things people say...not just about this topic but about weight, and other personal things too.

Being honest ain't always easy, but I don't think being kind should be hard.

I think I'm over sensitive about prejudices because of the hurtful things I've heard over the years when I was obese. I really take care not to make judgments about people. There is no reason for hurtful comments about someone's race, size, sexual orientation, whatever. We all have something unique to bring to the table, if we just take the time to get to know one another. I was fortunate I had employers who did that, despite my size. They looked beyond that, looked at my accomplishments, not my size. But so many don't do that, even when the law forces them to.

Cheryl,

Time and time again. . . ..I just wish we lived closer to each other. I felt that kinship with you the first day we met in person. My Aunt Fae who I loved dearly was so one sided in her views. Totally believed that any gay person could be "fixed" by the right program. Not. . . .I don't think anyone chooses their sexuality. I have friends of all persuasions. I am so thankful that we are not all alike.

So often, words come out, sometimes misinterpreted, sometimes not, words nonetheless that conflict, hurt, bruise. I've said things that unintentionally hurt and without someone speaking up I would not have known I had caused pain. I appreciate honesty.

Gee, I wish we could meet in the middle sometime. But right now it would be "Africa Hot" anywhere in the middle wouldn't it? 102 here yesterday, not much less today. I may just have to head up your way one of these days soon.Hugs

Karen,
LOL, yes, it is hot anywhere around here. Hey, I have never used LOL before.

I, too, felt a connection with you and wish we were closer. I would love to do a camping thingy with with you and others you camp with sometime....but I am so dang lazy!

I know I have said things unknowingly that have probably hurt others, and I am sure, have said things on purpose to hurt others.
Sometimes I do tell people about my son because I know that if they ever said anything to hurt me or him they would die, and I know people do say things and don't mean them. I want to let them know just so they are aware. Other times, I don't feel that I want to say anything because really it's no ones business and I feel that sometimes when I choose to say something it is because I trust I can. Other times, I just feel like I have to...my son doesn't care if I say anything and I know appreciates when I tell people, takes the heat off of him and takes a chore from him. I don't know... I am rambling...I also know that I have told people and wished to hell later that I hadn't. Oh, well....
My grandparents were awful about race and homosexuality, so I know if they were alive they would be having a stroke.
My parents are wonderful although I think my mom has a little hope he will "turn straight" someday. I don't think it is the gay part that bothers her just that his life is difficult because of the way he is treated. It's a hard row to hoe.

I would love to meet in the middle one of these days....wish I didn't have to work full time....if you do get over this way the back yard is gorgeous and the porch is so nice to visit on right now...hopefully it won't be pouring down rain like last time.

I really appreciated your words.

Cheryl

Cheryl, I agree with you; he was born that way.  And there is nothing wrong with him.  Homosexuality is only a sin because of a messed up translation.  I know Latin and Greek and am learning Hebrew and the term homosexuality wasn't even in those languages.  And Sodom and Gomorrah was never about sex, it was about hospitality.  It plainly states it in other OT books that Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed because they lacked hospitality to share food with the angles who came a calling.  Sigh.  I get so frustrated with people and their narrow vision.

It really makes me sad when people throw homosexuals and lesbians in the group of immoral folks.  Immoral indeed.  Let's take a look at some of the sexual sins of the heteros before we start talking about immorality.  I get a little defensive when my gays are attacked too.  I hate for them to be accused of destroying the family, being immoral, and one guy once said it was because of the gays that 911 occured.  HELLO.