Why do people go to Under Qualified Surgeons?

I work in a Doctors office and I never cease to be supprise how maney times it takes for some people to learn things. Having seen some people over 11 years they will still come in and ask qustions I have went over and over with them. Some people just need to deal with one thing at a time,and need reinforcement. not that the Doctor or staff is lacking. They just need a little extra time and reasurance, and thank GOD for support groups like this one!

 With the VGS being a new surgry it has been the first step of Duodenal switch for along time. I talked with 3 different surgens to choose mine and the fact that he has not done as maney VGS's as one of the others. I went with him because of the large #'s of gastric work he has done. Being a nurse and getting feed back from Doctors I work with also helped. After training in a new procedure there is always a learning cure.
 
 Sorry if it seams like a rant! I just have seen it so much.

I keep trying to post this reply to Vitalady and it keep****ting below other posts! One last try, then I give up.

But you were self-pay, I guess. It cost me $300 where I am. Self-pay wasn't happening. A lot of travel expense wasn't happening.

Now my surgeon's office is a Center of Excellence and has great patient education. I wouldn't have let them cut most of my stomach out without knowing exactly what to expect and having good confidence in the surgeon's office. But for me the alternative wasn't another surgeon - it was no surgery.

I don't live in a mobile home because I believe brick built homes aren't worth the investment - I live in one because right now a brick-built home is out of my reach.

Sometimes, reality stinks

Not sure why you copied to me. Doing something on another computer.

It always cracks me up when ppl deride others for lack of knowledge. My surgery was i***** My only research was talking to live ppl. There was no internet for me! I'd seen someone who had "a" surgery in 1976, someone who had a VBG in 1985, and then the few I met at the seminar. That's it.

Not everyone HAS access to knowledge. I don't consider myself the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I'm not stupid. I learned what I could. At the time of my surgery, I made two calls. One to my doc office and one to "the other place". Had the other place called me first, I'd have had 3-4 surgeries by now. And be a nutritional disaster area. My doc office called first, so I proceeded. One of the luckiest things that ever happened to me.

We didn't have COE in those days. My surgeon started in 1963, so he had a lot of experience under his belt. But, so did the other place.

Did you want me to suggest a regimen for sleeve?

Your mobile vs stick built analogy is good. I chose mobiles previously because they were so much better insulated than stick builts. The one I have now screamed for a roof, windows, insulation in every inch. So much for stick built. LOL

While access is an issue, I think a lot of it is dumb or more likely lazy patients.  Even with a very good, high-end, experienced surgeon you have to a) pay attention during information sessions, visits, etc., b) read the written materials provided, and c) take responsibility for your own health.  I have a binder full of information from my surgeon that details my eating, supplement, and exercise plan.  I went through it in detail, highlighted, took notes, etc., before my surgery.  I used to to PLAN ahead of time and to prepare myself mentally for what was to come.  I still refer to it periodically particularly since I'm about to hit 6 months and move on to another phase in the plan.   







  

Have you had a nap yet?

I agree with your point. Some people could go with more research. But your other point is also valid, some people really are dumb and its not the surgeon's fault.  When someone says to me, "I know there are no dumb questions, but...."  I respond, "that's not true, there are dumb questions."

The bottom line: Access is an issue. Research is an issue. Probability of complications is an issue. And the patient's own common sense or intellect is an issue.

Hi Frisco.  I think that that is an area where one shouldn't cut corners unless absolutely necessary.  I'm fortunate I was able to get loans that gave me enough money to get the surgeon I wanted, and if I hadn't been able to, I probably would have saved up.

But that being said, most people are not well educated on nutrition.  Even Dr. C has a few things wrong (like the fact that he spouts ridiculous falsehoods like that Dr. Atkins died from heart disease, when in fact he died from head trauma: http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/atkinsdiet/a/dratkinsdeath. htm), or like that fat is bad for you.

The main problem with fat is it is calorically dense in a time when people need to reduce calories to lose weight, but it is a healthy nutrient in the body otherwise, and your brain is primarily made up of fat as are your hormones, so it's not a terrible thing.

The problem is that the media and science are all tainted by financial interests.  You will find it hard to find the truth about nutrition because the truth isn't lucrative.  The people who want to sell you tofu and orange juice will work hard to tell you any potential benefits of the food they are trying to sell you while ignoring 99% of the data to the contrary.

It's not lying to tell you that vitamin C is great for you and that OJ has a lot of it.  It's simple omission to NOT tell you that OJ is also full of fructose (natural sugar) which causes spikes in insulin, which leads to insulin resistance, high cholesterol, diabetes and obesity (http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/01/0 2/HighFructose-Corn-Syrup-Alters-Human-Metabolism.aspx).

Then you are told that everything is OK in "moderation", which gets people still eating things that are pretty much KNOWN to be pure CRAP.  Because just a little bit is OK.. most people don't have any clue what just a little bit does to your body and the people who want to sell crap sure aren't going to tell you.

If you start to look deeper at the bill of goods people are being sold, they (marketers) baffle you with BS or find the one study that ignores good solid evidence to prove the point they want to make to you.  The propaganda is so pervasive that even forward-thinking doctors like Dr. C. are at times confounded.

The propaganda is also pervasive in the schools that teach dieticians and nutritionists.  I can tell you this because I went to such a school purely to get my credentials.. I was thankful that I had more than a decade of experience before I even went to school so I was able to think critically about all the crap that I learned in school.  Most of the time I had to choke back my disgust as I read my textbooks.

So with so much bad information, it's no wonder that most surgeons, dieticians and nutritionists don't have good information to give out.  We are fortunate that Dr. C is willing to be open minded about this sort of thing but many doctors aren't and I have to say that it must be hard for Dr. C to break from the mold in this area, but I'm sure his amazing stats have helped him feel more comfortable with that.  

And if the professionals give out bad advice, how is the patient ever going to learn, especially with all of the other bad info out there?  So while I think that Dr. C does an amazing sleeve, I believe that even those with slightly larger sleeves can do better if they are given the right nutrition information.  

What you put in your sleeve is more important to a degree than how much you put in in most cases.  I don't blame the poor patients or even the doctors or nutritionists for this.. I blame greedy corporations and politicians that allow marketers to LIE by omission and allow scientists to taint studies and media that distorts information.

Sorry for the rant, but the system makes me really angry.. so many people dying needlessly so that the CEO of Kelloggs can make a buck. Grrrr...

Another common thing that doesn't help is the fact that you can't meet some surgeons until you have attended their seminar and scheduled the surgery with them. Unfortunately, this includes large surgical practices in places that are Centers of Excellence. By the time you've gone through the hassle to get to meet the surgeon, it is the day before the surgery where you are loaded down with information from the surgeon and the nutrionist. There are some excellent surgeons with excellent track records and tons of patients who do this. I think that it is not customer friendly and does not encourage meeting multiple surgeons because it would require going to multiple lengthy seminars and scheduling surgeries and cancelling if you didn't like the surgeon at the pre-op meeting.

One other factor that should also be considered in researching a surgeon is his longevity in a practice - there are some docs out there who have very extensive CVs and are very impressive in their seminars, but don't do well in the OR and are "asked" to leave. They then move to a different city and set up shop or join another practice until they are encouraged to leave again a year later. Public reputation doesn't always correlate to their peer group reputation. This is not to say that any doc who has moved or changed practices in their career should be blacklisted (particularly with the state of the med industry these days,) but a doc who can't keep a job more than a year or so at a time should raise a red flag.

Interesting Frisco.  This was the very dilema I was faced with.  My local Bariatric Center wanted to charge me over $22K for my VSG.  I was self-pay.  I would have paid it, I was ready to pay it.  Until they told me that I was to be his first VSG patient.   OHHH sure he has done a billion and one RNY's, a much more complicated procedure.  And Yesss, he was the director of the Bariatric Center yada yada....When I found out he would be getting proctored (I guess that means when they are certified by another more experienced doctor with the staple gun) with me I ran straight for the hills and onto an airplane to Dr. A.   Why?  Because Dr. A clearly spelled out what I was to expect in his book.  His stats were good.  His patient testimonials and successes were good, and BONUS he only cost $8900 (plus airfare and childcare).

Anywhoo, we can only make the best decisions when we do our dilegence.  Heck...I was going to have the lapband initially until I asked enough questions of every nurse in the hospital about what they would do if they had to choose.  They all said VSG!  Thank God!!

But I am just a newbie here, and I know there are alot of folks out there hurting, scared and feeling lost even with great surgeons and I would never want to think that they couldn't feel comfortable coming here, because I learn from them too. 

Soooo......perhaps this is a great time to launch that cookbook.  It would get us to stop asking what we should be eating! 

Ann