The age old adage "If you don't have anything nice to say. Then don't say anything at...

Marny your last paragraph is excellent....and similar to what I have also tried to say....just not as eloquently.....I regret ever having tastes of things....my "taste" of cake or cookie...or whatever....became 2-3 tastes per week....and then my own piece, however small....etc etc....

I tried moderation....and for me its just not going to work....balance yes......when the occasion is special....and my weight is where I want it to be and stable....I will have the very occasional treat......like a bite or two...and I am also glad that I didn't start this "treating" myself until almost 1 years post op.....I just wish I had waited longer....or never

 

Everyone has to find their route.....and you are going to do what YOU want to do......but Marny is right....its very difficul****ching and reading some of the posts as a  2 years plus vet  and into maintenance.....

I can definitely understand how it would be teeth-gritting time when you see us newbies doing stuff that didn't work out so great for you.  I appreciate your advice (and on a daily basis too, lucky me and others who participate in the WAYEDT threads).  I don't think it's necessarily about the advice, it's about the delivery.  I haven't seen you or Marny be hurtful or scolding when giving advice, which is probably why it's so appreciated by those of us who are going through the losing phase now.  Your advice is always framed as how things worked (or didn't work) for you, and through your own experiences, and that's why it comes across so well, at least to me, anyhow!

That's nice Michelle......not everyone had the same command of the english language....nor can temper their "temper"......but I am OK with that.....its a public forum and I think you have to take it all....

I think people dont intend to scold....but get incredulous re some of the postings......and frustrated.....by what they may see as obtuse reasoning....however....each to his or her own

 

I remember the very first time I cheated. I think It was just over a year or so. I am a teacher, and there are forever pizza parties at lunch time for the children's birthdays. Well, this day, I ate a slice of pizza (which I hadn't had yet), and a wagon wheel- why the hell I'd choose a wagon wheel for my first ever "cheat" is beyond me- I guess it was just there.



Anyhow, I felt terrible, and when things bother me, I talk- to anyone and everyone who will lend me an ear. Well....I posted my transgression on OH under the title of "Pizza and Wagon Wheels! Oh my!" I was trounced by some, and I'll admit, it stung, and it was my first taste of "tough love" as some call it. I realized then, that our group is wide and diverse, some were all about the sympathy and empathy, and some were not. For me, if I share a failure, it is not to garner responses, necessarily. It's cathartic for me. When I put it out there, I'm admitting it and I instantly feel better. I know and expect that people will comment in different fashions, and I'm okay with that. I take what I want and chuckle about the rest. Sometimes my ego might get bruised, but it he end, it doesn't matter. It takes all kinds to colour the world, and I'm not going to like everyone's picture, c'est la vie!

That's interesting.  You see, I would hesitate to post about that here if I'd done that, knowing the reaction I'd get.  I've messed up too, but I haven't had the nerve to post about it until well afterwards! :)  I can just imagine what you got!  Haha.

Another interesting thing I find is the difference in philosophy from one person to the next about what constitutes "cheating".  I try not to think of my eating pattern now as a "diet", so I don't consider myself to be "cheating" if I go off my food plan for the day.  I don't call myself names anymore, so I don't call myself a cheater or describe my actions as cheating.  I describe poor choices as just that - poor choices.  Then I count it, weigh myself the next morning to see the consequences, and move on.

I think I mentioned before that one time I ate a whole croissant that was staring at me all day at a meeting.  I brought a couple home for my husband and then ended up eating one that afternoon because I got busy working around the house and skipped a snack by accident, then suddenly was starving, and there was the croissant staring at me again. :)  So I ate it.  (And not slowly, either! How I got away with that without dumping or foaming or feeling sick is beyond me.)  And afterwards, although I felt bad about it, I caught myself before I went into the self-flagellation spiral and said, okay, I'll count it and move on.  Which I did.

I was a bit worried that by not beating myself up about it, I'd give myself "permission" to do that again and again.  Well, strangely enough, I haven't had a croissant since then, and that was about three months ago, I think.  I believe that by not turning the croissant into a huge, forbidden, guilt-ridden food, and not doing my usual "I suck" routine afterwards, I took the power away from the croissant and other foods to rule my life, make me feel like crap about myself when I give in to them, etc.  It just makes them not all that important and not worth thinking about and wishing for all day.

If I'd talked about it on here and gotten some of the "How could you do that, why aren't you taking this surgery seriously, some of us have been waiting forever and here you are, cheating, you should have stepped aside until you were ready so the rest of us who are taking this seriously can have our turn" type posts in response, I think I could have slipped back into that old pattern of thinking.  We can say that we shouldn't let what people say to us get to us, but the fact is, it does, because we've spent our whole lives being criticized by people for our weight and our eating habits.  The best thing this surgery has done for me is to help me work on that internal dialogue around food and "cheating" and worthlessness, and I don't want that work to be undone, even a little bit, by all-or-nothing criticism (especially when it's by people who haven't even had the surgery yet - and that has been happening lately too - I've noticed it more from pre-ops than vets lately - some of my strongest support here on OH has been from vets, and I'm grateful to them for the excellent advice they give from experience).

I also don't buy this whole argument that people who "cheat" (whether on opti or after surgery) are taking surgery times from people who will take the surgery "seriously".  The fact is, none of us were perfect before the surgery, and none of us will be afterwards, as we all discover after surgery.  It's how we handle the poor choices that we will inevitably make along the way that will determine our success, in my opinion.

That's exactly how I want to be. To not have food control me. I think that you have done some excellent work.

My friend is more than 5 years out now, and she always told me that the biggest change is in your head. Your body getting smaller is just a bonus.

Sorry for high jacking...but Marny, I can tell you are a teacher...you are very well versed. And well spoken. I enjoy your responses and posts.

Thanks for the compliment

Agreed many who are posting and understanding where I am coming from are under a year post op... Most of my friends who are 2+ years out just don't come to OH at all any more but we still have these conversations off forum.

The struggles which they face are something I was very aware of going into surgery and it was watching the all or nothing struggle that they faced... Then watching them learn to be accountable and learn moderation... And learning to live with themselves that helped me find my own path.

It is hard. The journey is hard, and the life change is even harder. Another poster said it well "It is all in the delivery of the message".

I think we face enough "hard" things along our journey that there is a way to genuinely help people and not have them feel it is better to go it alone than it is to participate here, or in the various support groups available.

I have had some really eye opening experiences pre and post op. A couple of them made me very hard line about what I will and won't allow myself to partake in.

Pre op it has involved being lectured because I clearly wasn't "committed" enough if I was having a VSG over a RNY by someone who was severely intoxicated at the time and pounding back drinks and shots (that was unique). Each "shot" of alcohol is 40-200+ calories. Let's not even get into the discussion about "mix".

Post op I've been chastised for eating healthy carbs and natural sugars over sweeteners by a low carb/no sugar person while they drink a skinny sugar free hazelnut frappucino with whip cream. I didn't know what to say at the time I just blinked a few times and stared at the whip cream on it as I know Starbucks only has regular whip cream. What can you say? How do you tell someone that professes they only consume 20g of carbs a day that there is 2 g carb, and 8 g fat and 80 calories in the whip cream alone which they didn't really need to be consuming. Especially when they had a second one in rapid succession. They were Grande's so that was likely 400-500 calories they drank. They literally blew their "low carb" lifestyle for an entire week as well because I have yet to see 0 carb frappucinos. They are 30-40 g of carbs without whipped cream, and with SF syrup according to their own nutritional data. That person is over 3 years out...

I guess the point I am trying to make here is that we all make choices.

For myself... I'd rather eat my NY Style WLS friendly portion control cheesecake every now and again. I would rather eat food prepared with natural cane sugar, or stevia over sugar alcohol (which I am allergic to), artificial sweeteners (which I am allergic to), etc. Do I think my way is best? It is best for me. That is what counts isn't it?

I've said this before on OH and I will say it here. The calories, and stats consumed by a woman who is 5'0" is not going to be suited to a woman who is 5'10". Just like activity levels impacts our daily requirements also.

In 2 years I will still likely be at the "shared piece of cake" stage... For me cake wasn't my downfall. I like it well enough but the cake and cookie monster in my house is my husband. He'd kill me if he knew I shared this but I changed the way those things came into the house in the first year we were together and he went from over 286 down to 189... Granted he goes in fits and spurts where he is making/buying cake and cookies and I let him have his 1-2 months and then we have the "desert" conversation. I am not even bad about chocolate typically. I can have chocolate go stale before I "get to it" and have always been that way.

My downfall was too much of a "good thing", and not opting for the extra lean meats every time. Kolbassa, cheese, and the wrong amount of crackers were a huge issue in the past and I had to learn to change that. I know I have to watch my portion control with crackers, and I weigh and measure my cheese or consume portion controlled options. I will always have to do that, but I have done that since 2010 when I lost weight last time. I have portion controlled my food since I took myself from my very highest (369 which is not reflected in the ticker below). The one thing I failed to give up was my penchant for my "mocktails" (pineapple juice with a splash of orange juice, splash of cranberry juice, splash of 7 up or sprite) and cold drinks with calories. I'd drink 3-7 of those on a hot day beside or in the pool at the one place I use to go to. 3-5 days a week. And they were in 16 oz cups. When I gave that up in the Autumn I watched the inches drop (and 10 lbs of the 92 I have lost to date). Sure I still have juice but now I have 1/4-1/2 cup (60-125ml) instead of 12 oz+.

I think that knowing our own food complexities is key and just because one person has issues with cookies doesn't mean the next person wants cookies... Maybe they want a porter house steak when they are having a "food moment". I got a lot of push back when I brought up the concept of those who eat/ate too much of a good thing and didn't really enjoy junk food outside of an occasional sampling of it on the open forum... But in PM I got replies from those who were like me, or even a couple who were bigger health/natural food junkies than I was/am.

I also go back to "Eat your calories. Don't drink them." because I had it pointed out to me that it is possible to fail a VSG most easily by consuming a high caloric liquid diet. Scary to think about but my Surgeon was very clear about that.

Shell